Trading gear has become a real joke!!!

[Lo end PUNCH]

Instrument retailers, a few big chains and even some smaller ones have this very, what I and ALL of my peers feel, low-balled and downright disrespectful way of handling trades for gear and its becoming a real joke.

THIS IS A LITTLE LONG BUT PLEASE READ IT ALL BECAUSE I'M SURE MANY HERE CAN RELATE AND IT WILL BE DEJA VU.

This is based on a true story, er...STORIES, the names have been changed to protect the informed!!!

First scenario; "The profit margin pitch"

Example; Guy comes in with a bass that cost him $2500 in dead-mint condition hoping to trade for something different for whatever reason he may have. Guys tests, plays and picks out his choice of bass for trade and it has a price tag of $2500. The store guy goes "what did you pay for yours" and "what were you looking to get for it" ( be aware that these questions have no real relevance whatsoever because IT WONT MATTER!!!) and the guy replies "I paid $2500", its in dead-mint condition and sounds great, I'd at least like to get $1800". The store guy takes your instrument to some room in the back after saying, "OK let me go and run this by- insert manager of stores name here____________.

Second scenario; "What is that smell, smells like bull%^$#"

Guy comes back to you and says "Well we just saw this same model bass on Ebay for $1200"

Third scenario; "Oboy here we go"

The guy then starts to tell you how nice your instrument is and starts to really get this look of pain in his face and lets you have it, "We can't possibly give you $1800(because some dude on ebay is selling his for $1200) , our policy is we'd probably sell this for half of what its worth $1250 and we have to calculate our profit sooooooooo, we could do about $625 in trade leaving you a balance of $1775."

Fourth scenario;

Guy: SIX.......TWENTYFIVE????

Store guy: Yeah I know it sucks but...yeah that ebay thing..

Guy: SIX.......TWENTYFIVE????

Store guy: Yeah my manager doesn't feel that 6 strings are good sellers and......

Guy: SIX......TWENTYFIVE????

Store guy: yeah you might just wanna sell it outright and....

Guy: SIX...wait, are you serious??

Store guy: yeah the manager says that everyone is dropping this line of basses and he doesn't want it just sitting here , nobody's gonna buy it for....

Guy: Are you serious?? What a complete crock of horse&%$#!!!

This has been the scene or similar to every time I try a trade for gear in a store, theres no consideration for what you paid or what the value, make, reputation and condition of your instrument is and the main culprit is Ebay who, in a way is killing, no, has almost singlehandedly killed the trade. I even have a friend who ordered an amp online and during that shipping period had a swift change of heart. He went in to his local music retailer who carried the piece he wanted and told them that he had it comming and wanted to use it for a trade, brand new, box would not be opened including date of delivery and reciepts, they were like SURE bring it in.....same EXACT scenario as above. No kidding. What has happened? I still say Talkbass and some boutique sites are the beast places to move and/or gear.

[Dr. Cheese]

Just remember, it's a bad economy and merchants or chains are low on cash. They want to give up as little as they can and make you pay as much as they can. Although the market is slow, this is definitely a time to sell youself, and not depend on any sort of trade in.

[kevinmoore73]

Originally Posted by Lo end PUNCH

This has been the scene or similar to every time I try a trade for gear in a store

So why do you keep trying?

[BigOldHarry]

This is nothing new. At all. Period.

We all have to learn this lesson: Retailers are in business to make money so they can not give you fair value for used gear. Sell it on ebay or the CL. Forget retailers, at least for disposing of your old gear. Just forget it.

[Lo end PUNCH]

True right now at this point but this has been the norm I personally have been dealing with for the last 4 years with the retailers and the pre-recession woes had nothing to do with it back then. Sadly it can be another excuse thrown in there to low ball you even more now.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I think ebay is great, and shops were undercutting people on trade ins long before the internet!

Sell direct, a little more hassle, takes a bit longer, sure, but you'll generally get a much better price.

[parsons]

I see someone has been to a guitar center recently....


You have to understand that used gear is used just like a business is a business. They are always going to give you less than fair used market value for your stuff because they have to sell it back to someone else for a profit, otherwise they are just a middle man holding the money invested into said piece.

As a rule of thumb, Guitar Center tries to make 30 percent on used gear. For instance, they sell Stingrays for 850-900 bucks usually. That means they gave some poor soul 550-600 for a dead mint Musicman. That sucks, but thats business.

Would I trade them one of my Ernie Balls? Nope.

[PSPookie]

What's new? The chain stores want to get you coming and going. Ideally they want you to buy an instrument at full retail and then trade it back to them for about 1/3 of what you paid. They will then turn around and sell that same instrument again for about 2/3 of its new price.

Ebay, TB, CL, etc. are actually the heroes here because they give you an opportunity to sell your instrument at fair market value. Before that you were pretty much stuck with the music store's ripoff game.

[NOLA Bass]

First off, I agree that Talkbass is IT for selling, buying and trading.

However, the bottom line is that stores are in the business of making money. When they buy your bass or piece of gear, they take the risk of reselling it. If you buy a new bass for $2500 and go to sell it on talkbass or ebay or whatever, $1800 sounds about right (lots of varialbes of course). If all that store can get for it is $1800, then you can't expect them to give you close to that. Now, $650 may be super low in your example, but you get my point. The bottom line is you only trade in when you have to. The ONLY thing I've traded in over the last 10 years was a 410 cab so I didn't have to deal with shipping it. Otherwise sell outright.

It amazes me how many people get so "insulted" by GC or whoever else that is in business to make money involving trades.

[Lo end PUNCH]

Originally Posted by kevinmoore73

So why do you keep trying?

Because every now and then, not too much, you want to believe there is still some hope? There may be a piece there that you dont see anywhere else? Theres a few...

[Ron Plichta]

Here's something else to consider - that new $2500 bass may have cost the dealer around $1500 from the manufacturer (just a ballpark). Why should he pay $1800 for a used one?

[VroomVroom]

I have to admit, I too am surprised to see this surface again. Yes, the scenarios you describe are painful, but not because of the dollar amounts, but rather a lack of understanding about how the game is played. A dealer needs to make money on a transaction to stay in business. That means they'll need to buy your trade for less than they expect to make on its subsequent sale. Bada boom. That's all there is to it. Some stores may be more aggressive, both in terms of margins and volume, others not so much.

This really comes down to expectations. If you need more from your trade than its wholesale value - which itself may be low or high (trading that lefty 7-string...uh oh) - than your best bet is to sell it yourself on the open market.

[BigOldHarry]

Guys, is it a rip-off for store to make a buck??? No. It is not. When a retailer takes in a used piece of gear, the *first* thing he has to do is to report it to the police and then store it for a month or more to ensure that it's not stolen. That means his capital is tied up for that month, just sitting. If it IS stolen, he's hosed - no insurance for that! So after it clears police-hold, he hopes he can make the same margin on this new piece that he might make on a new piece - so he HAS to buy it cheap.

This is how business is done. Why be harshin' on the retailers when *you* have the option to just sell it yourself? I don't understand this hostility - - there is no free lunch, there is no one-time-only good deal - - This is just the way it works. Sell your gear yourself and save some bling - - hell, I learned that by the time I was 17.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Sell direct, a little more hassle, takes a bit longer, sure, but you'll generally get a much better price.

Hey, I've got a great idea....let's try something like that here on Talkbass! You know...like a trading post where bassists can sell, swap, trade their gear with other like-minded individuals. And it would be even better than E-bay....no posting / selling fees...and we could even come up with some sort of feedback system!

Okay, who's up for it ?!?

Riis

[Lo end PUNCH]

Originally Posted by NOLA Bass

It amazes me how many people get so "insulted" by GC or whoever else that is in business to make money involving trades.

Yeah I guess it the same as being amazed that just because they do doesn't mean you shouldnt be. Go figure.

[ThunderLizard]

Lo End-
They offered you $625 because they're not interested in selling your bass.

[kevinmoore73]

Originally Posted by Lo end PUNCH

There may be a piece there that you dont see anywhere else? Theres a few...

So buy the piece and sell your gear yourself on Talk Bass, Craigslist, or eBay.

[SteveC]

Why is this even a thread? Duh! That's the way it is, always has been, always will be. If you want what your gear is worth, you need to eliminate the middle man.

Place an ad on TB and good luck.

[msiner]

Like it or not, these shops do have to compete with eBay. Some of the smarter shops are even starting to sell online. I am no economist, but don't you typically not want to purchase an item at more than 1/3 of the price you intend to sell it at?

[Lo end PUNCH]

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Hey, I've got a great idea....let's try something like that here on Talkbass! You know...like a trading post where bassists can sell, swap, trade their gear with other like-minded individuals. And it would be even better than E-bay....no posting / selling fees...and we could even come up with some sort of feedback system!

Okay, who's up for it ?!?

Riis

Good idea, I concur as the last line of my post said that as I can see, slipped past MANY responders


"I still say Talkbass and some boutique sites are the best places to move and/or gear."
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