Transposing Instruments

[bassistpatrick]

I don't understand all this Bb clarinet, saxophones in the key of Eb, stuff. That doesn't mean they can only play the notes in those keys, right? Can someone explain?

[spudmaster34]

It means that an Eb on a bass is the same as a C on an alto/bari sax. A Bb on a bass is the same as a C on a tennor sax/most clarinets.

[tplyons]

For the record, in general:

Flute - C
Piccolo - C
Clarinet - Bb
Tenor Sax - Bb
Soprano Sax - Bb
Alto Sax - Eb
Bari Sax - Eb

Could you tell I was a utility woodwind player?

Spudmaster was correct on the explination.

[bassistpatrick]

your talking about when reading music, right?
if i understand this, then when i'm reading on my bass, and i see an Eb, the note I play is Eb. When someones' playing an Eb sax, and they see an Eb, the note they play is C.

[spudmaster34]

when I am playing sax, I see an Eb and that is what I play, the Eb that I play, however, is different than your Eb.

Think of it like this, if you tune your bass BEAD, and read tabs, it will still sound pretty much normal. If you play the same thing with someone tuned standard, and you are both using the same tabs, it will not sound right unless one of you shifts up/down 5 frets or one string.

Similarly, if I play sax with you while you play bass, it won't sound right unless one of us adjusts

[spudmaster34]

and while we are listing:
basoon: C
trumpet: Bb
cornet: Bb
trombone: Bb
Tuba: Bb

[bassistpatrick]

can these instruments be made in the key of C too?

[All_¥our_Bass]

Not that this helps, but I always did find that kinda wierd.

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by bassistpatrick

can these instruments be made in the key of C too?

Yes (and you can find some) but they wouldn't have the same sound as a regular one since they would be in a different spot in their range and it would be confusing to read Bb trumpet music, for instance, on a C trumpet. Not that it isn't slightly confusing the other way, but at least it's a standardized sort of confusion.

The nice thing about transposing instruments is that you can match up note names with fingerings across a family of instruments. A C scale on my horn is very similar to a C scale on my trumpet.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by spudmaster34

and while we are listing:
basoon: C
trumpet: Bb
cornet: Bb
trombone: Bb
Tuba: Bb

Trombone = C

[nowhereian]

Originally Posted by spudmaster34

Tuba: Bb

Actually, tubas are named for the fundamental pitch of the interument, but read in C. I think they're the only instrument to do so.

The more you know

[bassistpatrick]

i still find this confusing.

ok, if im an alto sax player who wants to play tenor, what would be different?

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by bassistpatrick

i still find this confusing.

ok, if im an alto sax player who wants to play tenor, what would be different?

Not too much. All the fingerings are the same for all the saxophones, so an alto player can switch to soprano, tenor, bari, or bass (if you can find one). So, an alto player (with music written for alto sax) sees a C, fingers a C and the sound is the same as Eb on the piano. A tenor player (with music written for tenor) sees a C, fingers a C (same fingering as the alto player used), but since they are playing a Tenor it sounds the same as a Bb on the piano (actually a Bb an octave lower).

If you are writing a part for a sax player in a band, you should transpose the part for them, it's really the polite thing to do, but really good sax players can deal with this themselves. In a professional commerical situations most horn players (trumpets too) can deal with a 'concert pitch' (same as piano pitch) part. They'll transpose at sight. (trombone players learn in bass clef, but as professionals, they'll know treble and probably tenor clef also).

If you are writting for a sax section, 2 altos, 2 tenors, and a bari, you'll need to transpose the parts for them, and you need to know ranges and other technical things about the saxophone.

[Scottgun]

Technically, as I understand it, the bass is a transposing instrument because it is written an octave higher than it sounds.




Scott

[spudmaster34]

Originally Posted by bassybill

Trombone = C

Originally Posted by nowhereian

Actually, tubas are named for the fundamental pitch of the interument, but read in C. I think they're the only instrument to do so.

The more you know

woops, thats what I get from 2 weeks off school (and therfore school band)

[keb]

Transposing instruments drive me nuts. I expect an F# (for example) to have a specific aural character, a specific character related to its pitch. Like if someone plays an F# on a piano, I can say "that's an F#, because it sounds like an F# dammit!"

I guess I'm just way too attuned to A=440.

[CROZ]

Originally Posted by bassistpatrick

I don't understand all this Bb clarinet, saxophones in the key of Eb, stuff. That doesn't mean they can only play the notes in those keys, right? Can someone explain?

It's all just a convenience thing, so that horn and woodwind players can switch up between different sized and pitched instruments of the same family without having to relearn which note on the page goes with which fingering.

Just a convenience thing.

[seanm]

Originally Posted by bassistpatrick

i still find this confusing.

ok, if im an alto sax player who wants to play tenor, what would be different?

The key, tenor is Bb and alto is Eb. But it depends on what you play. If you only play written music, the music will generally be transposed for you. But if you play music of the "this one's in G boys!" type, you had better know the difference. For the tenor, you would play in A. For the alto it would be E.

And there are melody saxophones that are in C. They are about the size of a tenor sax.

And a bit of trivia: If you are playing an Eb instrument, you can play the bass clef part as if it is a treble clef and you will be in concert pitch! It will be auto-transposed for you.

[seanm]

Originally Posted by keb

Transposing instruments drive me nuts. I expect an F# (for example) to have a specific aural character, a specific character related to its pitch. Like if someone plays an F# on a piano, I can say "that's an F#, because it sounds like an F# dammit!"

I guess I'm just way too attuned to A=440.

But the pitch is no different. If I am playing the tenor and you tell me to play a concert A, I will play a B. But my B will be 440Hz! Or hopefully close to it

The different keys has to do with physical sizes. By switching the between Bb and Eb on the saxes, they can give all the saxes the same range (although different octaves) and keep the fingerings roughly in the same place.

[spudmaster34]

Originally Posted by seanm

And a bit of trivia: If you are playing an Eb instrument, you can play the bass clef part as if it is a treble clef and you will be in concert pitch! It will be auto-transposed for you.

but it will be in the wrong key, the notes will be on the right spot on the staff, but the key sig will be wrong