A very stupid, almost rudimentary question of music

[scorpionldr]

What is melody these days? and what modern examples of music are good for melody? and in Metal, aside from the famous "chug chug" riffs, is there good melody in any of it?

See, after trying to work with bands to put together music, after doing the entire electronic composition things in various programs, I've finally hit a wall. I don't know what to do now, so I figure I may as well relearn "square one" and find out how to incorporate it into my own music.

I never believed my parents when they said "that **** will rot your brain", but after at least five years of listening to music dominantly in the grain of:

http://www.myspace.com/magrudergrind
http://www.myspace.com/cattledecapitation
http://www.myspace.com/napalmdeath

I've lost it. And surprizingly enough, I graduated as a music major (of course I have been off music theory for a few years).

Can anyone help me?

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by scorpionldr

What is melody these days? and what modern examples of music are good for melody? and in Metal, aside from the famous "chug chug" riffs, is there good melody in any of it?

I'm not sure how to answer the part about modern examples of music "good for melody"... do you mean specific tunes? Does it have to be in the rock genre? Because it's really only the lowest-common-denominator levels of chug-chug rock, monotone rap, and laptop narcissism which I'd say are lacking in melody as a generalization. IOW there's plenty of great melody in modern music, you just have to get your ears out of the boring mainstream.

Listen to great vocalists. Forget the words, listen to their notes and phrasing. There's your melody. Then write chords which support those lines, and voila! You've got a melodic tune.

[scorpionldr]

well i mean, I'm a rock musician, dominantly. A metal musician moreso. So it's natural I'd want to find more there. After listening to serialist 12-tone composition, Free Jazz, and the music i originally listed, I'm just confused.

[baalroo]

man, your questions are always so obtuse and open ended, I never quite know what it is you're actually asking. That's not meant as some sort of attack or anything, just an explanation as to why the following is fairly long winded and not very direct.

Are you looking for examples of some sort? The stuff you mention (and have mentioned in the past, as well as the compositions of yours I've checked out) have all relied on the idea of intentionally side-stepping conventions such as melody.

I've always felt those genres are best enjoyed ALONG WITH other styles of music so as to keep a proper balance and understanding of musical expression as a whole... sort of a point/counter-point if you will. If all you're doing is breaking the rules, you forget why you wanted to break them in the first place... PLUS you've created new rules that are more ridiculous than the ones you're supposed to be breaking. Besides, personally I find it much more interesting to listen to/create music that BLURS the "rules" rather than BREAKS them completely. Any monkey can make random noise, it takes an artist to make random noise sound intentional/provocative/emotional/soulful/hauntingly familiar/etc. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Anyhow, maybe you ought to go to the opposite extreme and check out some stuff like Phillip Glass, Max Richter, Brian Eno, etc. Like, super minimalist type stuff... or if you want "heavier" maybe try some Sunn O))). I really have a hunch that it's not melody you're after so much as how to break back out of the ruleset you've created on how to "properly" break convention.

*edit* Wow, that's really convoluted, but I can't think of a way to more clearly state my point.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by scorpionldr

After listening to serialist 12-tone composition, Free Jazz, and the music i originally listed, I'm just confused.

I'm sure! You go from death/grind/whatevercore to serialism and freedom, and you wonder where the melody is??? No wonder.

How about some jazz that isn't so opposed to melody, like Dizzy, Monk, Mingus? Some well-crafted pop such as XTC or the Pretenders? Some hearty funk or lively salsa?

It's like you moved to the desert, and went to sand-appreciation classes, and you want to know if there's anything out there that isn't desert sand.

[Bard2dbone]

Originally Posted by bongomania

I'm sure! You go from death/grind/whatevercore to serialism and freedom, and you wonder where the melody is??? No wonder.

How about some jazz that isn't so opposed to melody, like Dizzy, Monk, Mingus? Some well-crafted pop such as XTC or the Pretenders? Some hearty funk or lively salsa?

It's like you moved to the desert, and went to sand-appreciation classes, and you want to know if there's anything out there that isn't desert sand.

Someone needs to sig that.

[WashburnBasser]

Originally Posted by Bard2dbone

Someone needs to sig that.

It's mine!

[scorpionldr]

Originally Posted by baalroo

man, your questions are always so obtuse and open ended, I never quite know what it is you're actually asking. That's not meant as some sort of attack or anything, just an explanation as to why the following is fairly long winded and not very direct.

Are you looking for examples of some sort? The stuff you mention (and have mentioned in the past, as well as the compositions of yours I've checked out) have all relied on the idea of intentionally side-stepping conventions such as melody.

I've always felt those genres are best enjoyed ALONG WITH other styles of music so as to keep a proper balance and understanding of musical expression as a whole... sort of a point/counter-point if you will. If all you're doing is breaking the rules, you forget why you wanted to break them in the first place... PLUS you've created new rules that are more ridiculous than the ones you're supposed to be breaking. Besides, personally I find it much more interesting to listen to/create music that BLURS the "rules" rather than BREAKS them completely. Any monkey can make random noise, it takes an artist to make random noise sound intentional/provocative/emotional/soulful/hauntingly familiar/etc. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Anyhow, maybe you ought to go to the opposite extreme and check out some stuff like Phillip Glass, Max Richter, Brian Eno, etc. Like, super minimalist type stuff... or if you want "heavier" maybe try some Sunn O))). I really have a hunch that it's not melody you're after so much as how to break back out of the ruleset you've created on how to "properly" break convention.

*edit* Wow, that's really convoluted, but I can't think of a way to more clearly state my point.

You are right, I leave obtuse questions, mostly because I'm interested in what other people's theories are with melody. So no offense taken, it's just after being so used to being backround (as bass) all the time, composition gets to be mysterious with me. Most of what you heard that I've done (I can admit now) was slapped together while I was in school, where I felt that while I had little time to write, I may as well write something piledrivingly senseless and relentless. But now, I'm looking to find that middle ground with being strange, yet realistic in some degree.

Melody came to me last night as being "important" because frankly, while I can right a whole pile of counterpoint and chorale work, I don't see where it's applicable in the music I'm working with. However, I feel actual melody is one of the things in that form of music that could improve the fanbase. Non-stop powerchords DO get boring in the end after all, don't they?

"Besides, personally I find it much more interesting to listen to/create music that BLURS the "rules" rather than BREAKS them completely. Any monkey can make random noise, it takes an artist to make random noise sound intentional/provocative/emotional/soulful/hauntingly familiar/etc. Does that make any sense whatsoever?"

Again, this thread I've begun because I'm looking to give what I do a "soul".....just as of now I'm poor at expressing "myself" in music, I suppose.

I am looking for good examples all around, but I am nonetheless going to come full circle back to playing some rock-variant genre.

I'll take your suggestions and study. Any additional recommendations would be of help as well.

Thanx
Jim