Vinyl & Record Players

[afzoomie67]

Thanks for all the replies! So, basically, there is no difference between vinyl and digital?

[StraightSix]

There is IMHO a big difference but you need to hear it for yourself to see which you prefer.

A while ago I recorded Led Zep I from vinyl (played on my Linn Axis turntable) into the PC in WAV format. I cut up the individual tracks and burned a CD from them only using a maximiser to ensure the levels were good...no other effects or EQ etc.

IMO my CD version sounds way better than the genuine CD version of Led Zep I.

[colcifer]

Originally Posted by Disco Batman

I went back to Vinyl simply because of the Loudness War. I can get new albums that don't sound like donkey turds.

Picked up a Music hall MMF 2.2 and love it.

http://colcifer.com/?p=995
http://colcifer.com/?p=1030

Originally Posted by afzoomie67

Thanks for all the replies! So, basically, there is no difference between vinyl and digital?

If by better, you mean hi-fi, no. Digital, when encoded losslessly, is better. Vinyl is an analog medium and has all the problems inherent in recording to an analog medium (they're noisy, wear out, etc). Plus, the workarounds to those problems cause problems of their own. CDs and hard drives aren't perfect but they're ubiquitous for good reason.

[James Hart]

Originally Posted by afzoomie67

Thanks for all the replies! So, basically, there is no difference between vinyl and digital?

vinyl is just cooler... the bragging rights alone make it sound sooooo much better than CDs

A properly mixed digital (audio file or CD) source with a 'good' DAC into a high end hifi set up sounds as good as any vinyl I've heard. I ripped all my CDs to 320 bit max VBR MP3s over a decade ago... I wouldn't give up the convenience of making / listening to mixed playlists.

[Solarmist]

Originally Posted by afzoomie67

That was a fast reply. But.. they go for $800 used.

$800 !!! I've got two 80's Technics direct drive players.

[afzoomie67]

Originally Posted by Solarmist

$800 !!! I've got two 80's Technics direct drive players.

800 was from a Google search. CL has them at 250 for 2.

[bolophonic]

I have gone back to vinyl for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything to do with what sounds better. For me, the sensation of holding a record is unbeatable. After 20 years of CD's, I basically just grew tired of the little cases cracking all the time, the tiny artwork, etc. I packed up thousands of CDs and stored them away for when my son is old enough to work a disc player so he can experiment with figuring out what kind of music he likes.

The other factor in the equation is that I don't ever listen to new music that anyone would consider "popular," so when I go see a grimy hardcore band, I can always buy a 7" directly from them. I can also find used LPs that I love, and there are always vinyl reissues of jazz, latin and reggae.

[PWRL]

I just plain like records, even flexi discs. Sometimes they're cheap records from Goodwill, sometimes they're new, expensive heavy vinyl lah-dee-dah. Depends how I feel. I bought a Stanton turntable that works great, and I record straight to Audacity, which works way better than some of the cheesy programs some of those things come with.
The first of those direct-to-CD jobs I bought completely smoked itself the first day or two. I forget the brand name. Another cheap record player I got for a friend rotates at the wrong speed, too fast, so watch out for cheap-o jobs! If you're going to get a turntable, get a good one the first time, otherwise it's not even worth it, considering the price of used CDs on Amazon.
Every medium has its flaws. But, I took a long time to rip all my CDs to a hard drive, so I wouldn't have to have them all out all the time. Then the hard drive crashed and wouldn't boot up anymore. But you know what always boots up? My turntable.

[StraightSix]

Originally Posted by PWRL

If you're going to get a turntable, get a good one the first time, otherwise it's not even worth it...Every medium has its flaws. But, I took a long time to rip all my CDs to a hard drive, so I wouldn't have to have them all out all the time. Then the hard drive crashed and wouldn't boot up anymore. But you know what always boots up? My turntable.

Good points here: good turntables are available very cheaply, now that so many users have gone to CD or MP3 format - search for some well-respected turntable reviews and keep an eye on the secondhand market.
Hard drive crashes can be the downfall of a purely digital system.

[Jazzdogg]

I started buying records in the sixties and amassed a collection of thousands of LPs, and the equipment needed to play them.

And yet, they remain unplayed these days, collecting dust until my 27-year-old nephew comes over to dig through "uncle's stash;" when I cash in my chips, they'll be his.

I keep my records mostly for sentimental reasons, and because there are quite a few recordings that I have on vinyl that have never been released on CD. IMHO, when it comes to fidelity, longevity, and dynamic range, modern CDs beat the snot out of vinyl.

[afzoomie67]

Thank you all. This is really interesting...

[Bert Slide]

Originally Posted by afzoomie67

Thanks for all the replies! So, basically, there is no difference between vinyl and digital?

I hear a difference especially if played on an good old tube powered receiver. My brother has an old Marantz and the warmth of analog is much more pleasing to me than digital, which to my ears is crystal clear yet somehow more sterile sounding. Maybe it's a nostalgia thing from countless hours as a kid listening to my Dads albums on his Pioneer system in the 70's. I also prefer tube amps for bass and guitar so maybe it's just somehow wired into my system.

[StraightSix]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

IMHO, when it comes to fidelity, longevity, and dynamic range, modern CDs beat the snot out of vinyl.

Yes on a technical level they do but if the sound of vinyl gets under your skin, there is no other way to get it than with a turntable

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by StraightSix

<SNIP> the sound of vinyl gets under your skin<SNIP>

Several years ago, one of my favorite LPs developed a conspicuous skip, so I bought the CD.

I recently put on that CD, and so deeply ingrained was the sound of that old LP in my memory that, without any conscious thought on my part, I found myself getting up to lift the tone arm at the point in the music where I was accustomed to hearing the skip.

Yes, the sound of vinyl does get under your skin.

[change-jug]

Originally Posted by bolophonic

I have gone back to vinyl for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything to do with what sounds better. For me, the sensation of holding a record is unbeatable. After 20 years of CD's, I basically just grew tired of the little cases cracking all the time, the tiny artwork, etc. I packed up thousands of CDs and stored them away for when my son is old enough to work a disc player so he can experiment with figuring out what kind of music he likes.

The other factor in the equation is that I don't ever listen to new music that anyone would consider "popular," so when I go see a grimy hardcore band, I can always buy a 7" directly from them. I can also find used LPs that I love, and there are always vinyl reissues of jazz, latin and reggae.

This!
I bought a turntable because a lot of the hardcore,doom,indie and punk bands I like started to only put out music on LP or mp3. I think records are way more cool than an ipod. So I went with a turntable from amazon for just under 300 bucks. Couldn`t be happier!

[Richland123]

If anybody is looking for something specific on vinyl, send me a PM. If I don't have it, I know other people who might.

[Marial]

Originally Posted by PWRL

I took a long time to rip all my CDs to a hard drive, so I wouldn't have to have them all out all the time. Then the hard drive crashed and wouldn't boot up anymore. But you know what always boots up? My turntable.

This happened to me. Twice. I have thousands of dollars of music tied up in two LaCie hard drives. I don't have the money currently to send them to a data retrieval company. As of now, if I do download mp3 albums I always burn them to CD for storage. I'll never trust as hard drive again.

My record player? It always works.

[lucas vigor]

I am into Vinyl. My old band released it's first album on vinyl.

I agree with what they say, you lose your hard drive, there goes all your music....but records last a long, long time. I have many records from the 50's that still work. It's really cool to hold something in your hands that is 60 years old, and then play it on a turntable, especially one of those big tube consoles which fill the room with fat bass goodness.

Frankly, I think it is making a comeback.

[tangentmusic]

The CD format, like many have said, is very handy and sounds very clean. Part of the charm with vinyls was the snap, crackle & pop you got with a well played copy.

To me, the thing I missed most about vinyl LP's was the full sized cover art.

Remember picking up "Yessongs" or "Relayer" by Yes for the first time and opening that gatefold? The Roger Dean artwork was (still is) amazing.

Plus you had the album sized liner notes and lyric sheets that you didnt need a magnifying glass to read!

Oh yeah... you could roll joints on them too... Different time, different place.

Vinyl is making a comeback

[jbybj]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, one of the reasons records sound the way they do is because of the technical limitations of the medium. Consider the history. When CD's came out, (1985?) there were only a handful of mastering engineers who mastered most of the great sounding vinyl releases. It wasn't easy, and these technicians developed all sorts of tricks and secret methods to make great sounding records. They went to great lengths to squeeze out every last db and Hz of the vinyl medium. These folks had been doing this for years, with about 100 years of the art and science of record mastering behind them. Great sounding records did not just happen over night, and not every record released sounded great.

Compact Discs! A completely different animal, none of the old methods of mastering were relevant anymore. Mastering engineers had to develop an entirely new craft, and the early technology, converters, etc. had their shortcomings. To master a vinyl record, you had no choice but to learn and pay your dues. You had to be MENTORED. With CD's, any nitwit with computer skills that could figure out Sonic Solutions could create a master for replication. It's no surprise that in the first years, CD's were perceived as "harsh".

CD's don't make crappy sounding audio, people do. Far too many titles get re-issued on CD, using some questionable, 4th generation, protection copy, 1/4" tape. CD's have about twice the dynamic range of a record, but does that increased dynamic range ever get taken advantage of? Rarely.

When CD's first came out, there were plenty of examples to support the notion that they sucked. Now that we are almost 30 years into digital music, I think we are coming around to a reasonable state of maturity in digital mastering. It's too bad that the marketplace, (young whipper-snappers) aren't interested in supporting higher resolution digital audio. DVD-A and SA-CD never took hold, but those 128k MP3's sure sell.

Then there is imprinting. You know, when the duckling hatches and the first thing is see's is a pig, the pig becomes mommy, for ever more. Those of us who were raised on vinyl, went through our teen and young adulthood with vinyl, it just became our "mommy" sound. It's hard to break that connection. While I sometimes miss the readable liner notes, and tripping out on the album art, I have always dreaded the formation of pops and crackle on my records. A well recorded, well mastered CD, or lossless digital file, will sound better on it's 51st playback, than a vinyl album, on it's 51st playback. Even if it were stored and played in a clean room, the best tonearm/cartridge/needle will still wear down the groove, and diminish the high frequency playback.

The preference for vinyl is not based on vinyl sounding better, just some people like it more, don't hold it against them.