waters v. gilmour

zongeek · #1 01-03-2005, 10:42 PM

ok so im laying around listening to "hey you", and all the sudden it comes to me: they were an extreamley amazing song writing team.

so the age old question wanders into my head...waters or gilmour? well i bought a book sometime back and best i can tell roger did write the songs. and played bass quite a bit and soem guitar on teh records. however live he did mostly guitar. gilmour, best i can tell, helped write a lot of the music, save the final cut and the wall, and did the fretless bass work where need apply?

i heard a rumour not far back that gilmour played all the bass on the recording and roger just wrote the songs. needless to say im a little miffed. i just wish, as most floyd fans do, that theyd put all that 4th grade crap behind them and get back together and start making good music again.

JPJ · #2 01-03-2005, 11:42 PM

I remember hearing/reading where Gilmore claimed that he played all or most of the "memorable" bass lines on Floyd records. Who knows if this is true or not, but I'd guess that Roger did a lot of the playing early on, but may have relenquished some of the bass duties to David later on. Of course, if may have just been that David was there and ready to play and Roger wasn't...who knows?

zongeek · #3 01-04-2005, 07:34 AM

couldnt tell you either. but it was really messed up for sure.

**IvanMike** · #4 01-04-2005, 08:22 AM

this should be in bassists i think.........

i was never a huge pf fan, but some of it is cool. I just recall the nasty stuff going on in the 80s when waters was upset about the remaining members of floyd going on tour and playing "his" songs. whatever respect for the guy i had was lost when he said "they call themselves pink floyd, but they're not. they're just really good imitators of pink floyd". All i could think was "Dude, take your medication".

**Adam Barkley** · #5 01-04-2005, 10:33 AM

Gilmour did play the fretless intro to Hey You and probably most of the more advanced parts (Young Lust, Pigs, etc). Waters had a cool style but I read that to this day he maintains that he is a artist and not a bass player.

Against Will · #6 01-04-2005, 10:59 AM

Waters' technique on bass is pretty bad, I constantly see his thumb creep over the top of the neck. As abark00 said, he was the conceptual guy for the band.

Matt Till · #7 01-04-2005, 11:16 AM

I was going to start a thread about this but: Wasn't another bassist (some studio guy?) credited on the Wall? I remeber seeing that somewhere. Because during Roger Water's version of the Wall live in Berlin, the bassist plays that who isn't Waters, and YOU KNOW if Waters wrote that solo he would play it, and there would be close up shots of him the whole time.

Muzique Fann · #8 01-04-2005, 02:21 PM

I thought this was going to be some celebrity wrestling crap or something! Waters would win by the way...just because he's crazier than Gilmour. Anyway, it's really rare to have 2 guys with that much talent in 1 band - pretty sad how it turned out. I've always sided with Roger for some reason. I mean Gilmour can play guitar and all (and maybe even bass), but he's just not on the same level in song writing (or lyrics for that matter) IMHO. There's only a handful of "classics" post Waters. Did he ever do that opera thing?

canopener · #9 01-04-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzique Fann

I thought this was going to be some celebrity wrestling crap or something! Waters would win by the way...just because he's crazier than Gilmour. Anyway, it's really rare to have 2 guys with that much talent in 1 band - pretty sad how it turned out. I've always sided with Roger for some reason. I mean Gilmour can play guitar and all (and maybe even bass), but he's just not on the same level in song writing (or lyrics for that matter) IMHO. There's only a handful of "classics" post Waters. Did he ever do that opera thing?

Well, there were only two albums post-Waters. Check out one of Gilmour's solo albums, and one of Waters'. I definitely pick out more Gilmour influence in PF's "heyday" years. But you can also pick out Water's album structure once you hear one of his solo albums.

I saw Roger Waters in concert in 2000, for most of the songs, Waters played bass but on several, Andy Fairweather Low (sp) handled bass duties.

Muzique Fann · #10 01-04-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canopener

Well, there were only two albums post-Waters. Check out one of Gilmour's solo albums, and one of Waters'. I definitely pick out more Gilmour influence in PF's "heyday" years. But you can also pick out Water's album structure once you hear one of his solo albums.

I saw Roger Waters in concert in 2000, for most of the songs, Waters played bass but on several, Andy Fairweather Low (sp) handled bass duties.

I change my number from a handful to a couple then

No, but I've got Amused to Death and Radio KAOS and the Pros and Cons. For what it's worth, I think the Final Cut IS a Waters solo album. I don't really follow Gilmour anymore although I do have some 90's bootlegs that aren't completely terrible. Waters is the master concept man and I'd also put him right up there with some of the best lyricists of all time (albeit a bit dark). I caught the In the Flesh tour at Shoreline in what was it....2001? It's one of my favorite outdoor venues, I remember the crowd went crazy over the line -got to keep the loonies off the grass! He rocked and he deffinitely surrounds himself with awesome musicians. Geez I get off topic sometimes

Muzique Fann · #11 01-04-2005, 03:48 PM

God I'm retarded today. I just reread my post and maybe I'm the lunatic on the grass

Razor · #12 01-05-2005, 03:02 AM

I think Waters did the best at writing..Gilmour did the best at playing.
All things considered..I totally prefer Guy Pratt.

zongeek · #13 01-05-2005, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

I think Waters did the best at writing..Gilmour did the best at playing.
All things considered..I totally prefer Guy Pratt.

no kidding. guy was awsome. sucks though that he didnt do a whole lot of writing, even when he was in the band for real.

Philbiker · #14 01-05-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Waters' technique on bass is pretty bad, I constantly see his thumb creep over the top of the neck.

so what!!? Waters is fine playing bass on his live DVD, recommended. Post-Waters Pink Floyd is OK but a bit boring. A few great songs there. All the real classic Floyd was when Waters was in the band.

Matt Till · #15 01-05-2005, 12:22 PM

Pigs off the Animals has aaaaaaaaaaaaa mazing bass playing. Was that Waters?

Bennito · #16 01-05-2005, 12:52 PM

I've never seen Pink Floyd live or Roger Waters. But I've seen the Division Bell concert on tv, and I own both Roger Waters In The Flesh and The Wall in Berlin DVDs and I must say, I enjoy the Roger Waters concerts much more.

I also known a ton of Floyd and Waters' Hitchhiking album. I think that's a great album. There are certainly a few cheesy parts that Gilmour would have replaced with much better parts. And I think that was the strength of the team. Waters wrote great songs, and Gilmour was able to see whatever was weak in the songs, and write something better for it.

But as soon as Waters left, Floyd lost all melody, all album structure, and the Division Bell concert wasn't exactly the Wall concert from 1980 if you know what I mean.

Matt Till · #17 01-05-2005, 01:15 PM

I disagree, to "But as soon as Waters left, Floyd lost all melody."

Melody was all they had in my opinion. Rodger Waters was the conceptual master, his melodies are kinda weak in comparison to Gilmour. Gilmour is more a musician than Waters, Waters is more a conceptual artist.

Waters, to me, is one of those people who have so many good ideas, that they are sometimes not good enough to do what they want to do. I have a friend who is like that, she writes such beautiful piano, but some of it is so intricate, she can't even play it correctly, but she doesn't compose. I think Waters is too good to keep up with himself.

Bennito · #18 01-05-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

I disagree, to "But as soon as Waters left, Floyd lost all melody."

Melody was all they had in my opinion. Rodger Waters was the conceptual master, his melodies are kinda weak in comparison to Gilmour. Gilmour is more a musician than Waters, Waters is more a conceptual artist.

Are you saying that a melody like "Learning To Fly" is as memorable as "Brick in the Wall" or "Money"?

bryan bailey · #19 01-05-2005, 03:40 PM

Gilmour played bass on "Pigs"

peteroberts · #20 01-05-2005, 04:47 PM

how do you verify all this 'this guy played bass on that tune'?

I don't care what anybody says - Pink Floyd is, and never will be, the same as when Roger was in the band...all that playing would've never made it to the radio if it weren't for Waters' writing, IMO.