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05-12-2009, 07:56 PM
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Endorsing artist:see profile/Current Setup | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: CHICAGO,IL. | | | What came first theory or
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the playing of an instrument?
Last edited by JAUQO III-X : 05-12-2009 at 11:27 PM.
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05-12-2009, 07:59 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Here we are... | | | Caveman bang rock.Not worried about theory.
Edit:this kinda describes my approach as well
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Last edited by 5StringBlues : 05-12-2009 at 08:06 PM.
Reason: mo info
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05-12-2009, 08:03 PM
|  | is, against all odds, still a scuba viking. | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alta Loma, California | | | ^
this.
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05-12-2009, 08:04 PM
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Endorsing artist:see profile/Current Setup | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: CHICAGO,IL. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by 5StringBlues Caveman bang rock.Not worried about theory. |
Or bangin something else  |
05-12-2009, 08:05 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Here we are... | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X Or bangin something else | Gotta do something on those long nights in the cave.
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Originally Posted by John Carter Vending toothbrush machine will need to know when we forget to brush the wife during the trip and instant we will get the machine. | |
05-12-2009, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X Or bangin something else | Yea but in theory Did he hit it on the one funk style, or on the two? Was he in front of the beat or behind?   :hyper :
God Bless, Ray
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05-12-2009, 08:27 PM
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Endorsing artist:see profile/Current Setup | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: CHICAGO,IL. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by LilRay |  |
05-12-2009, 08:32 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Los Angeles | | | First he had to heor it to play it. |
05-13-2009, 04:57 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cincinnati | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X the playing of an instrument? | Soon you will be playing a bass solo.
Before you play, are you thinking about it? Are you thinking theory or sound?
When you recall a solo played by a favorite player, do you think of it in terms of theory or can you sing that solo?
Within certain styles, do you have favorite songs? Can you sing them?
Do you have favorite keys? Can you sing a key? (not IN a key but the key?)
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05-13-2009, 05:21 AM
|  | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | My Jazz teacher can put theory into practice when playing - he is an Alto Sax player.
So on many occasions he has demonstrated how to play a solo which - only uses chord tones, then how that sounds different to a solo which uses alternate scales, diminished scales, whole tone scale etc etc.
It is possible therefore to have theory first and then playing the instrument - I have heard it!! 
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05-13-2009, 08:51 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central Illinois, USA | | | Well, since theory is an attempt to explain what HAS been the practice, not a set of rules that require strict adherence, then the music came first.
Why does that flat third against a major chord evoke the feeling it does in some people, and yet grate on others? Someone played the note that sounded right to express the emotion. Later, while trying to figure out what was going on, someone else said "it's a pentatonic minor scale, with a flat 5 added, played against a dominant 7 chord". Now that's theory.
jte
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05-13-2009, 08:55 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Also there is music that is entirely based on theory - so for example, Karlheinz Stockhausen wrote a piece of music that was a musical version of the Big Bang - in that case, the theory definitely came first!
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05-13-2009, 08:59 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey | | | Which instrument? Do you mean the INVENTION of the instrument?
If you mean the invention of the bass guitar, then theory came way before.
If you mean the invention of the harpsichord, well--their is some theory involved since it was based around tempered tuning and is divided in octaves.
If you mean each individual musician and when they picked up an instrument, then theory usually comes afterward. |
05-13-2009, 09:23 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | | Actually that's true - some amount of theoretical musical knowledge is needed to build an instrument, so in that sense it can be said to come first!
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05-13-2009, 10:14 AM
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Associate of Cusack Effects | | | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield Actually that's true - some amount of theoretical musical knowledge is needed to build an instrument, so in that sense it can be said to come first! | I have no doubt that the instrument came first.
There are dozens of stories of musicians who started on homemade instruments at early age, with little or no knowledge of music theory.
When Freddy Fender was just 5 years old, son of dirt poor migrant laborers, he built his first guitar with a sardine can and screen door wire.
And Lightnin' Hopkins story:
" So I went ahead and made me a guitar. I got me a cigar box, I cut me a round hole in the middle of it, take me a little piece of plank, nailed it onto that cigar box, and I got me some screen wire and I made me a bridge back there and raised it up high enough that it would sound inside that little box, and got me a tune out of it. I kept my tune and I played from then on." |
05-13-2009, 01:40 PM
|  | Supporting Member | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 3rd stone from the sun | | | Isn't the throat an instrument? I see cavemen mimicking songbirds long before theory or the building of instruments.
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05-13-2009, 01:44 PM
|  | (aka Greg Harman) | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dunbar, West Virginia | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X What came first theory or the playing of an instrument? | Hey, I'm not that old!! OK, OK, you got me. I was there but in typical cantankerous fashion I ain't tellin'.
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05-13-2009, 01:48 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey | | | Yeah, the voice is an instrument. And, yes people have been making music before they have been defining it.
To me, the ultimate goal is not to 'learn' theory---the goal is to 'forget' theory. You know, learn it so well that you no longer use it as a definition. |
05-13-2009, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by baba Isn't the throat an instrument? |
Yes it is and it was considered the first. |
05-13-2009, 01:53 PM
| | Supporting Member | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 3rd stone from the sun | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X Yes it is and it was considered the first. | Then that pretty much resolves the thread, yes?
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