What factors play into a great sounding B ?

Ingemar · #1 12-09-2007, 07:15 PM

I know I'm on thin ice here but...

What's important for getting an, as good as possible, sounding B ?

Mensur, string type, gauge, type of neck, woods, pups, bridge, e.t.c

cnltb · #2 12-09-2007, 07:23 PM

My two cent...
All have some impact.
But also the string it selve.
gauge, string type, material etc
Strings need a little time to "break in" as well.
Set up will have an impact also.
My bass is simple one piece maple necked bass( the maple being not as hard as on many basses I've "met".
It's 36" and has a one piece alder body( it's strung through the body) with no electronics, a single pickup and a light bridge.
The B works very well.

spade2you · #3 12-09-2007, 07:27 PM

From my experience, if you want a great low B, you need a great bass. I don't wish to start a boutique vs. stock debate, but if you can find me $400 bass that has a low B like my Conklin or my Rob Allen, I'll take a few.

Under $2,000USD, 35" scale can save a lot of basses. Above that, you need a luthier with a few tricks up their sleeves. Dingwall can make a killer low B in 37" scale and Cliff Bordwell can make one in 32" scale.

DavidRavenMoon · #4 12-09-2007, 07:54 PM

That's a good question.

I think having a rigid neck plays an important part. I'm real happy with the low B on my 34" set neck basses. They have maple/purpleheart necks, two truss rods, and graphite, and phenolic fingerboards.

A similar neck (maple/walnut) on a bolt on I'm working on seems to have a slightly weaker low B... but it could be the strings, since right now I have an old set on there.

Strings are important too. I like the low .130 B on the D'Addario XL Nickel Wounds. I don't like the low B on GHS Boomers.

ehque · #5 12-09-2007, 08:41 PM

I think the cursive D on the headstock has something to do with it.

black lake · #6 12-09-2007, 08:58 PM

I know what I am about to say bucks the popular thinking about B strings, but here it is. Your technique plays a big role in how a B string sounds. Some B strings are easier to play than others, but none of them are made to be hammered on without due regard to the amount of mass that you put into motion when you dig in. A descrete right hand and a light touch is all that is needed to get a decent sound. The amount of energy required is much less than the E string above it, just a light touch brings out the best in the B. IMHO of course.

DavidRavenMoon · #7 12-09-2007, 09:04 PM

Yeah, I guess it depends on the string brand and the bass and the setup. I play mine just like I would the E or A. I don't play with a light touch unless it's called for in the music.

black lake · #8 12-09-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidRavenMoon

Yeah, I guess it depends on the string brand and the bass and the setup. I play mine just like I would the E or A. I don't play with a light touch unless it's called for in the music.

Good luck with that DRM, don't confuse a light touch with playing softly. I am talking about a smooth efficient transfer of energy. I am glad your method is working for you.

Mr. Majestic · #9 12-09-2007, 10:17 PM

Every thing affects your tone. Tone is so subjective.
If the question is what makes a cheap bass's B sound good then: strings, technique, set-up, and string gauge.
If you have a slightly higher budget then: good hardware, better pick-ups, better electronics, and everything from the cheap bass.
If you asking what bass has the best B. Then you really are starting a war. I agree with spade2you, I know many luthiers that can really get those B's very defined and articulate. Under 2k basses pull this off with the 35" scale, but the A, D, and G strings suffer(most of the time).

DavidRavenMoon · #10 12-09-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black lake

Good luck with that DRM, don't confuse a light touch with playing softly. I am talking about a smooth efficient transfer of energy. I am glad your method is working for you.

I don't bash the strings, but I pick forcefully with minimal motion.

Been working good for the past 39 years.

**embellisher** · #11 12-09-2007, 11:59 PM

All B strings are not created equal.

As far as the bass itself goes, a rigid neck is the key to a tight, well defined B. This is a product of good materials and great craftsmanship.

Hardware can play a part. A soft stamped bridge will sound different than a hard milled bridge.

A setup can change a poor B to a decent one, and a decent one to a pretty good one.

And the string itself is an important part of the equation. For some basses, a great feel and sound out of the B string is a matter of finding the right string, and this includes gauge, not just brand and material.

Since this topic is all over the place, I am moving it to Miscellaneous.

lomo · #12 12-10-2007, 09:10 AM

Too many factors to list, but scale length and gauge are the most significant IMO/IME.

SuperDuck · #13 12-10-2007, 09:14 AM

No one has mentioned "pixie dust and good intentions" yet, so I'll throw those into the ring.

Also, it can't be a Fender. As we all know, no Fender ever made in the history of anything has ever had a good B string. Whether you've played or owned one or not, it simply can't be a Fender. At all. Ever.

cnltb · #14 12-10-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

No one has mentioned "pixie dust and good intentions" yet, so I'll throw those into the ring.

Also, it can't be a Fender. As we all know, no Fender ever made in the history of anything has ever had a good B string. Whether you've played or owned one or not, it simply can't be a Fender. At all. Ever.

Bard2dbone · #15 12-10-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

No one has mentioned "pixie dust and good intentions" yet, so I'll throw those into the ring.

Also, it can't be a Fender. As we all know, no Fender ever made in the history of anything has ever had a good B string. Whether you've played or owned one or not, it simply can't be a Fender. At all. Ever.

Well, you know the concept of how all stereotypes are true somewhere? It's the idea that says for whenever you run into a blonde astrophysicist, or a generous Scot, or a sober Irishman, or whatever you run into, somewhere there is the one example that is the reason all the others get blamed for whatever characteristic they don't have but the stereotype says they should.

I actually know two of them. A girl named Laura from my homeroom in high school is the reason people think blondes are dumb. And my little brother is the reason that people think Irishmen are bad tempered drunks, although in all fairness he has gotten into a residential treatment program and has now been sober for seven and a half months. I'm proud of him. That's an unusual feeling to have.

Well, the last time I was at GC, I played two Fender Jazz V's. And they could each be the example for a B string stereotype. The FMT Jazz V had the best B I have ever felt on a Fender. The 'regular' Jazz V had the worst B I have seen in a looooong time.

I am confused bt that. Shouldn't the construction on those two basses be the same? How can one be so very good, while the structurally identical one was so very bad?

In summary, I think it's all luck and voodoo.

bongomania · #16 12-10-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard2dbone

Shouldn't the construction on those two basses be the same? How can one be so very good, while the structurally identical one was so very bad?

It obviously wasn't structurally identical. They're an assemblage of completely different pieces of wood, bolted together with possibly no standard of torque, strung with different strings, which may have been played/abused to very different degrees.

IMO the scale-length thing is not 100% right, as the B on the 34" Sadowsky I had was just as strong, clean, and articulate as the B on the 35" Roscoe I had. So other factors can override the scale length factor.

The most important quality IMO is the tension relationship between the neck and the strings. You can tighten the strings all day, or use a 37" scale, but if the neck is too flexible the tension will vary wildly during the vibration of the string, resulting in a "floppy" low B. Tension is not static.

So you need a neck (and neck-body connection) with the right amount of rigidity combined with strings that are designed well for the purpose. That way they work together as a system of tension. That's a "well designed" bass but also a "good bass" in the "lucky/found a good one" sense, as every piece of wood is different, and every assembly of variable pieces is different.

Munjibunga · #17 12-11-2007, 12:06 AM

Dang! I was just about to express my pride in all of you that no one had mentioned tension until bongo went and blew it for you. Oh well, it was a good thread.

SuperDuck · #18 12-11-2007, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard2dbone

Well, you know the concept of how all stereotypes are true somewhere? ...

...I am confused bt that. Shouldn't the construction on those two basses be the same? How can one be so very good, while the structurally identical one was so very bad?

In summary, I think it's all luck and voodoo.

I can only speak by my experience, which is that I've never played a "bad" Fender 5-string. I've never played one and said to myself "That B-string is sub-par compared to others I have played!" Maybe I should start buying lotto tickets or something.

Bard2dbone · #19 12-11-2007, 07:20 AM

If you've never played a bad Fender B then you may have already won the lottery. That's just how yours paid out. If so, congratulations and good for you.

I generally haven't seen such wide variation right next to each other, which is why those two were worthy of posting, but I've plated an assortment of suepeisingly sub-par Fender V's. That also led to my decision that spacing was as important as any other element on playability for a fiver, and more important than several.

That's why I hope to have a Lakland five string in the next couple of weeks. I've yet to find a weak B on a Lakland. Some might credit that to the long scale. Some might say it's the graphite reinforcement. Some maybe even the tight, well designed neck joint.

I know better. Dan Lakin has secretly hired a houngan that makes the powerful B's for him. Like I said, it's all voodoo.