What happened to collaboration? **Rant Warning**

Bass Dawg · #1 10-27-2010, 08:08 PM

The longer I play the less interested I become with the egos and BS that a large majority of musician’s indulge themselves with.

At the end of the day we all have different levels of skill and knowledge, but it is apparent that if you are better player, or are further along the musical highway, the perceived correct behaviour is to judge and payout anyone that you think is not at your standard.

On the flip side, why is it that a large majority of the community has to feel like they're the bomb, and in a lot of instances aren't willing to take on constructive criticism?!

If only our ego driven counterparts would let the BS go, take a humility pill, and either impart or take-on knowledge and skills, and acknowledge that music in not about being the centre of attention, but more about working with other creative individuals.

Unfortunately, the truth is, that finding level headed musicians to jam and create music with would be a much more enjoyable experience if we all took a personal attitude check and remembered that music is art......... If you want to be in the limelight, become a rapper….. I guess.....

That's my two bobs worth.

Stereo Joe · #2 10-27-2010, 08:13 PM

Guitarist troubles?

Bass Dawg · #3 10-27-2010, 08:29 PM

Not just my guitarist. It just erks me that a lot of musos just want to be the "hero" and forget about the pleasure that collaboration and innovation can bring.

thudfromafar · #4 10-27-2010, 09:01 PM

that's just life these days

not just in the world of music... for pretty much everything

James Judson · #5 10-27-2010, 09:30 PM

Lots of egos in the musician world for sure. My wife thinks musicians are the lowest form of life on the planet. Is she trying to tell me something.

**nutdog** · #6 10-27-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass Dawg

level headed musicians

what?

Bass Dawg · #7 10-27-2010, 09:37 PM

I just bums me out. I think that we would be hearing a much better standard of music in the general stream if musos worked together instead of always trying to show each other up......

Classickbass · #8 10-27-2010, 09:53 PM

I have wondered the same thing myself a lot as of late. I have 4 people that I deal with through work who play guitar and one who plays bass. Two of the guitarists have held lengthy conversations with me about music and gear. Yet not one has offered to get together and jam. Who knows?!

Pilgrim · #9 10-27-2010, 09:59 PM

My band isn't a money-making enterprise, it's expressly intended as something we either enjoy or don't do. Members are chosen for personality first, talent second. We can learn the music - but we can't learn to enjoy someone who is a pain in the butt.

Bass Dawg · #10 10-28-2010, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

My band isn't a money-making enterprise, it's expressly intended as something we either enjoy or don't do. Members are chosen for personality first, talent second. We can learn the music - but we can't learn to enjoy someone who is a pain in the butt.

Well then I envy you. This will be my approach moving forward. I no longer have time for BS in my life.....

dokazaado · #11 10-28-2010, 05:19 AM

Life is too short to endure people who don't give you respect.
This is true in all aspects of life, and especially in the realm of the creative arts.
There's nothing wrong with offering ideas, but the democratic model is the only one I've found that truly works for me.
It's different if it's your main source of income, but for most of us that's not true.

baileyboy · #12 10-28-2010, 05:31 AM

James Judson- If your wife thinks muscians are "the lowest life form on the planet", I'd love to hear her views on lawyers and politicians...

Bassdirty · #13 10-28-2010, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thudfromafar

that's just life these days

not just in the world of music... for pretty much everything

You said it right there.

ggunn · #14 10-28-2010, 05:35 PM

I think of musical development as a three stage process.

Stage One - you're holed up in your bedroom trying to figure out where to put your fingers and feeling like you are never going to "get there".

Stage Two - you hang around music stores "trying out" equipment and looking for Stage One folks to make feel more inadequate for your own entertainment.

Stage Three - you can find common ground with just about anyone.

Some people never get past Stage Two no matter how proficient they get.

crossstick · #15 10-28-2010, 05:49 PM

There are two types of musicians - Competitors and Artists. It's always been this way.

Competitors may get quick early recognition for being "flashy" and standing out, but Artists end up getting the best gigs.

uethanian · #16 10-28-2010, 09:28 PM

^ you said it. once it's about one-up-manship, it's no longer art, just a game.

that kind of egotistical behavior (especially an inability to accept criticism) is just evidence of ignorance. people focus on a specific genre or style or even technique (shredding/slapping) to use as show of ability, when in reality they are totally lacking in relevant skill and knowledge.

i think this goes way beyond music, like it's more of a cultural thing...increasingly we're encouraged to become specialists in this or that, and we forget about being well-rounded.

Musiclogic · #17 10-28-2010, 10:40 PM

Everything in societyis about look and status...essentially ego, thus what you get in everything. I played for almost 30 years, 14 of that in a band that played all over the world. When the band broke up, I started to look for other gigs. I realized very quickly the headcase issue with musicians, and subsequently quit playing 10+ yrs ago. In my business I continue to see it every day, reinforcing my decision, and I hear from players the same complaints, it's almost sad what has happened to our society, and musicians in general.

jim777 · #18 10-29-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossstick

There are two types of musicians - Competitors and Artists. It's always been this way.

Competitors may get quick early recognition for being "flashy" and standing out, but Artists end up getting the best gigs.

The best gigs doesn't even matter, but I do agree with you. Artists who stick to their guns will get to create Art, and what could possibly be better than that? Sure, you might not make great money at it or be able to do it full time, but you get to DO IT.

ggunn · #19 10-29-2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

Everything in societyis about look and status...essentially ego, thus what you get in everything. I played for almost 30 years, 14 of that in a band that played all over the world. When the band broke up, I started to look for other gigs. I realized very quickly the headcase issue with musicians, and subsequently quit playing 10+ yrs ago. In my business I continue to see it every day, reinforcing my decision, and I hear from players the same complaints, it's almost sad what has happened to our society, and musicians in general.

Gosh, it must suck to be you!

FWIW, in the circles I run in, with a very few exceptions, the musicians are NOT like that, and I've been around the block a few times, too.

OmnitzGarima · #20 10-29-2010, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

My band isn't a money-making enterprise, it's expressly intended as something we either enjoy or don't do. Members are chosen for personality first, talent second. We can learn the music - but we can't learn to enjoy someone who is a pain in the butt.

Good for you. This is the approach I'm trying to take. I'm working with a guitarist on a regular basis, and things work. We're trying to get a sax player to sit in, and we have a few other people in mind. But, we have had a few people sit in already who have baggage that we'd rather not deal with, so they aren't invited back. Life is too short.