What Makes The Ramones Punk and Green Day Not?

BassGod · #1 05-09-2006, 07:05 PM

I don't expect this thread to be pretty, but I ask this in all honesty. No troll here.

I was thinking (uh-oh)...

The Ramones played simple, short, three/four chord songs and wrote about things like being sedated and beating on brats.

Green Day (Dookie-era) played simple, short, three/four chord songs and wrote about equally silly things. And their bassist was actually pretty good.

So how come "true" punk fans consider The Ramones to be real punk, while Green Day is considered pop crap? They basically play the same kinda happy-go-lucky, loud music. If anything, Green Day is actually better at their respective instruments than the members of The Ramones.

I'm not really a fan of either band. I'm just curious as to people's opinions on the matter. As I said, this is an honest inquiry, so keep it civil please (I know there are some very faithful punk fans out there).

Graeme

Smallmouth_Bass · #2 05-09-2006, 07:10 PM

It probably depends on what's popular at the time. Green Day is popular and therefore probably not considered as punk because punk is not suppposed to be popular.

d8g3jdh · #3 05-09-2006, 07:10 PM

I think Green Day was punk, but now they're sorta popish. I think people who call them fake are refering to what they've become, not what they once were.

But I don't really know punk that much. For the record, most punk fans are asshats anyways.

gruffpuppy · #4 05-09-2006, 07:12 PM

The recording studio, the equipment, the money.

Marcus · #5 05-09-2006, 07:14 PM

Well, for starters, punk-rockers are very proud, jaded individuals when it comes to their musical tastes. It's very off-putting, to be honest. I gather that once a punk-rock band hits it big and they start to see 14 year old teens going nuts for a band that they thought stood for some form of artistic rebellion, elitism kicks in and the once cherished band gets kicked out.

That's just my opinion any case. It's also why I stopped going to punk-rock shows. I listen to any and everything that pleases my ears, I could care less about any scene stigma.

superbassman2000 · #6 05-09-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallmouth_Bass

It probably depends on what's popular at the time. Green Day is popular and therefore probably not considered as punk because punk is not suppposed to be popular.

exactly...the ramones were punk because they were something new...If the remones came out now, they'd be called posers just as much as any other "punk" or "punk-rock" band

Matt Till · #7 05-09-2006, 07:31 PM

I just don't understand how Green Day is pop punk and Ramones are just punk. They both sound (as you stated) very poppy.

To me, the punk scene is just as fake as the posers they are trying to keep out. I try to avoid scenes.

scorpionldr · #8 05-09-2006, 07:50 PM

Ok, here's my best guess to what this is, after talking to my drummer (a really big fan.....but not in that perverted way of going to all their gigs):

Greenday has a punk attitude, and they have a catchy upbeat style, but their songs have more structure and are more musical. That and you can't say that they would be on the same level as minor threat or Dead Kennedies. They can, however, be compared to bad religion and pennywise. Alot of their writing also variates between slow and fast whereas punk is also fast. They don't completely follow the punk vibe, but they're songs can make a comparison to other punk songs. Ok, i have no clue what I was really saying, but let's put it this way. Greenday are sorta like the Beatles: cute songs that everyone can enjoy, and they are really popular and their songs also can be compared to the beatles (in some areas folks, not as an equal). They're rock & roll INSPIRED BY punk

lyle · #9 05-09-2006, 07:54 PM

well there was kind of the new school punk headed by fugazi and the ninties punk with pennywise and early greenday. I actaully like some early greenday good bass riffs too. But i think there dissed hard nowadays because of their latest stuff. I think they sold out a bit and mike dirnt tammed down his bass (boring)

Woodchuck · #10 05-09-2006, 07:54 PM

Green Day could actually play.

Funky Fatcat · #11 05-09-2006, 08:03 PM

Green Day's old stuff is good. But when i listen to the radio and hear it on i don't see it as punk. In my opinion i would think it is pop...leaning kinda towards emo because come on who wears eyeliner

havik180 · #12 05-09-2006, 08:10 PM

Punk kinda changed with the world. People are more forgiving and accepting to certain things, so punk became edgier and had to push more boundries.

Green Day is "just" punk enough to be accepted by so called punks but more than enough pop for your parents to even like ! Thats the problem !

Throw in some pink accents , eyeliner , call call your latest album a "rock Opera" and you pretty much throw you punk credit out the door and make millions in the process.

Look at a punk from then and compare them to a punk now , there really is no comparing them. I really dont get how pink and black striped arm bands make you punk !? What happened to Doc's , patches and safety pins ?

BassGod · #13 05-09-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by havik180

Look at a punk from then and compare them to a punk now , there really is no comparing them. I really dont get how pink and black striped arm bands make you punk !? What happened to Doc's , patches and safety pins ?

But "the look" shouldn't really be a factor, right? I mean, it's about the attitude and the music I thought. Not the image.

Graeme

mike_v_s · #14 05-09-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassGod

So how come "true" punk fans consider The Ramones to be real punk, while Green Day is considered pop crap?

There was a meeting. You must have missed it. Also voted "not punk" is anything that came out after 1990 and involved a mohawk.

Mike

line1 · #15 05-09-2006, 08:35 PM

in order to descern between who is punk and who isn't punk, punk, must be defined.

i believe that we all agree that green day is no longer anywhere near what a punk band is. they were somewhere in the vicinity of what punk was, but really, it was all an act.

punk rock was not "underground" or a new thing when green day was on the scene. really all they did was capitolize on what had already been done and continued calling it punk rock. (i do like Dirnts bass in the old stuff however)

the ramones were the first to make "punk" popular in any way, but what punk later became known as was more of what the Dead Kennedys were doing.

Angry sarchastic protests set to a fast beat with "hardcore" fans. it became a lifestyle and not a type of music. thats when punk rock started to die and really gained its popularity.

every era had a different definition of punk rock, so really its all about perspective.

green day is not by my standards punk rock.
green day is pop punk.
ramones are punk, but not by the same standards as the dead kennedys.

i'm sorry if that doesn't make sense to you, it does to me.

ramones are original, green day is a nicer sounding copy.
simple.

havik180 · #16 05-09-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassGod

But "the look" shouldn't really be a factor, right? I mean, it's about the attitude and the music I thought. Not the image.

Graeme

True ! but what I was trying to say or show I guess is how something seems to have been lost in the music if that is kids perception of punk today. Like Good Charlotte kids all over think that they're punk and to me they're not. They make pop music for teenage girls and wear all black with make up and sh*t.

It kinda goes hand in hand if ya think about it

Then - mowhak , home done piercings , dirt.

music - simple , fast , dirty and offensive to most

Now - black hair , eyeliner , Hot Topic and cleanliness

music - slower , emotional and ok to listen to in your moms car on the way to school

jeff_bass28 · #17 05-09-2006, 08:42 PM

For me, Green Day lost all connection to "punk" when "Time Of Your Life" was used on the last Seinfeld episode.

A shame, too. I'm sure it wasn't their call, but...

Fawkes007 · #18 05-09-2006, 08:43 PM

A better question would be why anyone in their right mind would consider Good Charlotte to be punk.

jeff_bass28 · #19 05-09-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fawkes007

A better question would be why anyone in their right mind would consider Good Charlotte to be punk.

Maybe it's "punk" for a 26-year old to date a 16-year old? Especially when it's Hilary Duff?
Or maybe it's just "pathetic?"

Matt Till · #20 05-09-2006, 09:18 PM

I think the Misfits said it best when they said, "Whooaa oooohhhh ohhhhh ohhhhhh."