What makes (or will make) you a professional?

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

I hear a lot of people refer to themselves as "professional bassists" and I'm just curious to see what you guys feel would/does qualify you as a professional bassist.

The obvious connotation would imply that someone doing this as a profession would qualify them as a professional. I'd like insight on a deeper level, as many of us have day jobs and gig on the weekends. I've heard musicians say "If you make money doing it, you're a professional" but I'd beg to differ, as Pete Wentz is making money playing bass

So the answers given are something you feel qualifies you as one, or is your goal you strive towards and feel that goal would qualify you as a "professional bassist". Skill, which I mentioned Pete's lack of before, is a very debatable topic so I will skip it... let's go for something we can establish on a factual basis.

[tplyons]

Professional is defined as: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs

Therefore, if you make money playing bass, you're a professional, to some extent.

[seanm]

I consider a pro somebody who makes, or is attempting to make, their living with music.

Semi-pros make money with music, but it isn't their main source of income. You also hear the term weekend warriors.

Hobbyists mainly play in the basement, although they probably gig now and then.

[PJSShearer]

I was a Professional Bass Guitarist for 10 years and I don't think fitted any of the categories listed. Here's my story and I have an alternative definition at the end.

My first ever job (apart from vacation work at school) was five nights a week in a night club playing "Cocktail Jazz", dance music and backing the Cabaret Acts. From there I spent time on several Cruise Ships, more night clubs, a circus in Germany and finished up at a Pontins Holiday Camp. In between I'd dep for Country Bands, play Jazz in Pubs, Chart stuff in Wine Bars, Weddings and Bar-Mitzvas - anyone who'd have me!!. You name it, I've done it.

When someone called me and asked the classic question:

"what kind of music are you into?".

I said "the kind that pays money!".

What made me a professional? - I got paid to play the Bass and I didn't earn money any other way.

That, IMHO, is the definition of a professional.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by tplyons

Therefore, if you make money playing bass, you're a professional, to some extent.

I once was given 10€ if I would stop playing bass.
Does that make me a professional?

[Pacman]

What makes me a professional?

I've made my living the past 25 years as a musician.

[two fingers]

I don't think you have to make ALL of your money playing to be a pro. I will tell you what MY definition is. You have to be/do most of the stuff on the following list....
1) reach a level on your instrument that allows you to execute the music you are being paid to play flawlessly
2) show up on time all the time
3) have everything you need to play the gig, and a lot of spare stuff just in case (In other words, "I can't play because I broke a string." NEVER comes out of your mouth.)
4) nobody has to call you four times on the day of the gig to make sure you have your $#!T together.
5) You don't have to beg, borrow, or steal anything to pull off a gig (I'm not saying you have to have really expensive gear, but you have to have ENOUGH gear to get the job done).
6) you are respected by the musicians in your area as someone having most/all of the qualities stated above


IMO that makes you a pro. I do all fill-in gigs these days (usually 7-10 a month). I can tell you that there are plenty of pro musicians in Eastern NC. There are also a lot of hacks.

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

Originally Posted by two fingers

I don't think you have to make ALL of your money playing to be a pro. I will tell you what MY definition is. You have to be/do most of the stuff on the following list....
1) reach a level on your instrument that allows you to execute the music you are being paid to play flawlessly
2) show up on time all the time
3) have everything you need to play the gig, and a lot of spare stuff just in case (In other words, "I can't play because I broke a string." NEVER comes out of your mouth.)
4) nobody has to call you four times on the day of the gig to make sure you have your $#!T together.
5) You don't have to beg, borrow, or steal anything to pull off a gig (I'm not saying you have to have really expensive gear, but you have to have ENOUGH gear to get the job done).
6) you are respected by the musicians in your area as someone having most/all of the qualities stated above


IMO that makes you a pro. I do all fill-in gigs these days (usually 7-10 a month). I can tell you that there are plenty of pro musicians in Eastern NC. There are also a lot of hacks.

I like your answer a lot (I liked the others too, dont worry lol) but just like at everyday jobs when they discuss "professionalism" and define it as an attitude, I think that can have a lot to do with what people consider you. Like you stated in some of your listed attributes, it seems you value someone who takes their role seriously when it comes to their instrument...I have to say I couldn't agree more.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by two fingers

I don't think you have to make ALL of your money playing to be a pro. I will tell you what MY definition is. You have to be/do most of the stuff on the following list....
1) reach a level on your instrument that allows you to execute the music you are being paid to play flawlessly
2) show up on time all the time
3) have everything you need to play the gig, and a lot of spare stuff just in case (In other words, "I can't play because I broke a string." NEVER comes out of your mouth.)
4) nobody has to call you four times on the day of the gig to make sure you have your $#!T together.
5) You don't have to beg, borrow, or steal anything to pull off a gig (I'm not saying you have to have really expensive gear, but you have to have ENOUGH gear to get the job done).
6) you are respected by the musicians in your area as someone having most/all of the qualities stated above


IMO that makes you a pro. I do all fill-in gigs these days (usually 7-10 a month). I can tell you that there are plenty of pro musicians in Eastern NC. There are also a lot of hacks.

I like your response the best because it seems to stray away from the "You`re only a professional if you make money" concept.

I think being a pro has a lot more to do with how you handle yourself in a business setting than just how much money you pull from your gigs. I certainly don`t make enough money from gigs to live off of it comfortably, but that in no way diminishes the professionalism that I bring to the table when I play in groups.

I always show up to gigs and rehearsals on time(if not early).
I always have my parts down to a science.
I am always prepared and have all my equipment ready.
I always have back-ups in case something goes wrong.
I fully understand how to use my equipment.
I know how to read, write, and speak the language.
I don`t horse around when it`s time to get work done.
I am constantly looking for new artists to learn and get inspiration from.
I am constantly trying to perfect my work(don`t practice until you finally get it right - practice until you can never get it wrong).
People either seek me out to fill a position, or people have no problem recommending me for sub gigs.
etc...

I think if someone can read that list and say "That`s me!" to at least 8-10 of those, I would like to assume that would classify them as a professional musician and bassist regardless of how much money they make

[TheDarkReaver]

But there is a difference to being a professional and having a professional attitude or work ethic. You can be professional without being a professional.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by TheDarkReaver

But there is a difference to being a professional and having a professional attitude or work ethic. You can be professional without being a professional.

Well let`s twist that a little and look at it from a different angle. Do you think someone can be a professional without having a professional attitude or work ethic?

[skidrawk]

The first two options in this poll can be obsolete. In todays market, it is proven that you don't need a recording contract to make it in the business. In today's market and economy the DIY factor can play a big role in a successful business model. To the scale of professionalism likewise can be determined by other factors, not by definition - "Part time" professionals, "Full time" professionals, Instructional professionals, etc. Trying to pigeonhole everyone to a role isn't the way to conclude a definition. The bigger your umbrella, the more people fit under it. Lots of professionals with different roles can share the term.

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

Originally Posted by skidrawk

The first two options in this poll can be obsolete. In todays market, it is proven that you don't need a recording contract to make it in the business. In today's market and economy the DIY factor can play a big role in a successful business model. To the scale of professionalism likewise can be determined by other factors, not by definition - "Part time" professionals, "Full time" professionals, Instructional professionals, etc. Trying to pigeonhole everyone to a role isn't the way to conclude a definition. The bigger your umbrella, the more people fit under it. Lots of professionals with different roles can share the term.

The reasoning behind choosing those was just because being signed to a label can sometimes mean a steady source of income as a bassist. Not to mention that many people judge your status by how much recognition you have (i.e. - There's the bassist from (insert band name)!!).

Since the title is typically self-endowed on here, with value or achievement given on personal standards, I was merely curious as to what others felt qualified them to have this title. I wasn't after a textbook definition, but merely popular opinion on something we can clearly define (i.e. - you're either in a signed band or not, there is little gray area). Not to say I don't agree with you, but as you know we all have very different viewpoints on here...I couldn't exclude an option solely because I disagreed with it or found it outdated, as we have many people that have been bassists for quite some time on here and clearly defined roles or positions make it easier to poll.

[ggunn]

This gets asked a lot; in my opinion it's none of the above. Professionalism is, in my view, a matter of attitude.

[seanm]

I agree that you can have a professional attitude, but I don't believe that makes you a pro.

By some of the above lists I am a pro, but I am basically a hack bass player.

I work 8+ hours a day on my job. There is work that has to be done around the house. I try to get in one hour of practicing a day. Sometimes it is more, sometimes less. But I am pretty good at getting one hour in.

If you make your living as a musician, you basically play 8 hours a day (I know, there is other stuff you have to do, but let's keep it simple). I don't think you can underestimate the importance of that amount of playing.

[fdeck]

To define "professional," I look at it from the customer's viewpoint. Imagine a layperson who thinks that they need a plumber. Everybody expects that a professional plumber will ask the right questions to scope the job, show up with the right tools and skills, work without supervision if necessary, and get it right on the first try. If it is a commercial job site, the plumber will know how to read drawings and cooperate with other workers who he has never met before.

Here's what the customer wants. When the professional on the other end of the phone line says: "I will do the job," the customer doesn't have to even think about it any more.

Of course the professional could also say: "I am not trained in that skill, you need to call so-and-so." That's part of professionalism too.

I am not a full-time pro, but when someone hires me, they know that I am committed to doing a professional job.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by seanm

I agree that you can have a professional attitude, but I don't believe that makes you a pro.

By some of the above lists I am a pro, but I am basically a hack bass player.

I work 8+ hours a day on my job. There is work that has to be done around the house. I try to get in one hour of practicing a day. Sometimes it is more, sometimes less. But I am pretty good at getting one hour in.

If you make your living as a musician, you basically play 8 hours a day (I know, there is other stuff you have to do, but let's keep it simple). I don't think you can underestimate the importance of that amount of playing.

By the 8+ hour concept, I`ve been a pro since my freshman year of high school

[PJSShearer]

The number of times I used to hear something along the lines of:

Playing Bass for a couple of hours a night isn't a job - I work 8 hours a day - that's a job!!.

[PJSShearer]

Originally Posted by fdeck

To define "professional," I look at it from the customer's viewpoint. Imagine a layperson who thinks that they need a plumber. Everybody expects that a professional plumber will ask the right questions to scope the job, show up with the right tools and skills, work without supervision if necessary, and get it right on the first try. If it is a commercial job site, the plumber will know how to read drawings and cooperate with other workers who he has never met before.

Here's what the customer wants. When the professional on the other end of the phone line says: "I will do the job," the customer doesn't have to even think about it any more.

Of course the professional could also say: "I am not trained in that skill, you need to call so-and-so." That's part of professionalism too.

I am not a full-time pro, but when someone hires me, they know that I am committed to doing a professional job.

Everyone - read and disgest ...

[OtterOnBass]

Sorry, but a professional is a full-time musician.

Professionalism are ideal qualities of someone out to get the job done first and foremost, leaving personality and self-interest out.

There are tons of great musicians who aren't professionals, but in the colloquial sense, are 'professional' in their ability level. Like you.