What is it with musical instrument prices???

[SamJ]

Warning.. Rant follows..

Ok, at first I though that maybe Fender was the only ones that did this, but then I noticed the same thing on Ampeg, and now with having bought two new acoustic guitars, one a Taylor and one a Martin and I've seen the same thing.. the "general" rule is you take "list price" and take 30% or so off that and you get the "Street" price.. or basically the REAL price..

That is to say, if a guitar retails for $2700, and you can get it all day long at all stores for $2000, it's really a $2000 guitar, isn't it?

The really odd this is that you'll have certain instances such as when I was looking for a Fender American Deluxe FMT IV and called for 3 days straight literally ever store in the nation and nobody had them, as they were on back order for 3 months.. and finally I found ONE, and the guy knew it was the only one left in the US.. but yet he still sold it for $1649, which is 30% off the retail price of $2300 or so.. even though I may have been tempted to pay that retail price as it was the only one! (supply and demand)..

So what is it with this 30% of stuff? Why not just re-adjust retail and be done with it?

Does any instrument sell at list? I've tested this on everything from low end SX to top end Martin and Gibson products, even the likes of Sadowsky and Lakeland do it..

Anyone have anything to add?

[babs1234]

i think these stores try to make you think you get a bargin if you get it from them

for example if you go to guitar center on the tags it says the guitar center price and the retail price then put how much you save if you buy it from them but in reality you can buy it mostly any where for the same price

[bobbybass85]

I've noticed the same thing, and being that I work in retail i can somewhat understand where the companies are coming from. I work in outdoor retail though, and the market isn't as price competitive, but you also don't pay $7,000 a "vintage" tent lol. People are always looking for a deal so for someone who doesn't know any better walks into Guitar Center or any other music store and sees a price sticker that says " MSRP $100.00 Our Pirce: $69.99!!! " It's all marketing and it helps with sales a lot when people don't understand it's happening intentionally. lol, i'm not trying to be a devils advocate hear, i think it's bs too, not much we can do though

[RavCat]

+1 I find it annoying when you see on the price tag (using above as an example): RRP: $2700, Our price: $2000

Fact is, the ticket price still isn't "official" - most retailers will discount a bit more off just because you ask nicely. I don't think I've ever bought a new guitar at ticket price!

Originally Posted by SamJ

That is to say, if a guitar retails for $2700, and you can get it all day long at all stores for $2000, it's really a $2000 guitar, isn't it?

I definitely agree!

I'm currently buying a new digital piano, and the only purpose all this price-trickery seems to have is to add an extra layer of confusion on the buying experience.

However, the up side is that when making your case to your significant other/parents/etc, it always helps to say "well, it's a $2700 guitar, but they've got it in at the moment at $2000!!!"

[labgnat]

yeah buying a guitar in the store never goes for what the tag says. i just ask is this really what you guys are selling this for? how far can you come down? and they tell me. it's pointless for them to do this, not really sure why, but u gotta play their little game.

[RavCat]

Originally Posted by labgnat

it's pointless for them to do this, not really sure why, but u gotta play their little game.

Definitely, but I'm amazed at the amount of musicians I know who don't/won't do it!!!

I hope they do it when it comes to buying a house or car

[thebassclef]

But, it's a great way to get a new bass or rig when the wife is with you. You can say "Look, Honey, It's 30% off right now!" Then, when you play their gane to get the price down further, she thinks it's a REALLY great deal.

[SamJ]

Ok..

But how do you all explain the supply and demand thing? I mean I just walked into GC the other day and for the first time bought a guitar from them. Reason being, this guitar came out of the box right infront of my eyes and I knew it hadn't been handled by everyone.. Now they wouldn't discount it at all from their "30%" sticker price, but they did in fact sell it to me at the discounted price.. where as this guitar is very hard to find now, and may be able to fetch more than that.. certainly much closer to it's original 2700 list price.. as they're very in demand, and hard to come by..

[gkbass13]

its highballing. every salesperson can go down a bit but some shoppers just see a price as a price, whether ina grocery store or ina music store. so if 1 out of 4 people dont push the salesperson and accept the 30%off retail....the store profits.

[KingOfAmps]

Originally Posted by SamJ

So what is it with this 30% of stuff? Why not just re-adjust retail and be done with it?

Doing so would defeat the purpose of having the current system which is the way it is to give the illusion that the playing field is even for everyone below the mfgr.

With MSRP you have a "fixed" starting point from which everyone can discount which sounds and looks fair on the surface. The important number is what the dealer actually pays. And that can be affected a thousand ways. Front and rear loaded incentives, rebates, extra discounts based on guaranteed bulk orders, favored credit terms, kickbacks, advertising co-op, just to name a few.

The whole point is to make it look on the surface like all dealers are on equal footing yet creating room for slop and BS to occur "in the discount".

Doing what you suggest affords less room necessary to "favor" preferred dealers. Dealers who expect to sell for less than their competion or more importantly (and differently) make more on the instrument at the same price.

There's a lot more going on in that 30% than meets the eye.


I don't take Wiki as the Gospel but this is sorta informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSRP

[SamJ]

good stuff King, thanks.. I guess in some way, the 30% off is a sort of "Free Market" adjusted retail....

but this all still doesn't address how some hard to find stuff is still sold at these discounts, when surely due to excess demand it can go for more.

[cheezewiz]

Sadowsky doesn't do it. At least on the Metros and the Amplifiers. The price tag is what you pay if you want it new.
I've never bought an NYC, so I'm not sure what the pricing structure is, but from what I understand, you order a bass, Roger tells you how much it costs, and that's how much it costs.

[Jazz Ad]

Around here, street price is 30 % ABOVE U.S. retail.

[KingOfAmps]

Originally Posted by SamJ

but this all still doesn't address how some hard to find stuff is still sold at these discounts, when surely due to excess demand it can go for more.

Sam, that could simply be seller's ignorance. Or choice. Or policy, etc.

You should realize that the masses of people do not do the due diligence you do to become as informed as you are.

From your original post:

and finally I found ONE, and the guy knew it was the only one left in the US.. but yet he still sold it for $1649, which is 30% off the retail price of $2300 or so.. even though I may have been tempted to pay that retail price as it was the only one! (supply and demand)..

But you didn't, did you.

One reason being that you know eventually the market (supply/demand) soon will equalize. Assuming more are built of course.

[KingOfAmps]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Around here, street price is 30 % ABOVE U.S. retail.

I can be bribed with lots of champagne.

[SamJ]

Originally Posted by cheezewiz

Sadowsky doesn't do it. At least on the Metros and the Amplifiers. The price tag is what you pay if you want it new.
I've never bought an NYC, so I'm not sure what the pricing structure is, but from what I understand, you order a bass, Roger tells you how much it costs, and that's how much it costs.

This is the same with the Fender Custom Shop, but those are a different bread.. I'm sure a "production" Sad doesn't sell at "list"..

[SamJ]

Originally Posted by KingOfAmps

One reason being that you know eventually the market (supply/demand) soon will equalize. Assuming more are built of course.

I never got the chance as it was priced at $1649... Had they had it listed for full retail, or say 10% off, I assure you that day (some 3 or 4 months) ago, I'd have paid it!

Glad I didn't though, as I just sold it for $1350!

[jwl]

Originally Posted by SamJ

Warning.. Rant follows..

Ok, at first I though that maybe Fender was the only ones that did this, but then I noticed the same thing on Ampeg, and now with having bought two new acoustic guitars, one a Taylor and one a Martin and I've seen the same thing.. the "general" rule is you take "list price" and take 30% or so off that and you get the "Street" price.. or basically the REAL price..

That is to say, if a guitar retails for $2700, and you can get it all day long at all stores for $2000, it's really a $2000 guitar, isn't it?

The really odd this is that you'll have certain instances such as when I was looking for a Fender American Deluxe FMT IV and called for 3 days straight literally ever store in the nation and nobody had them, as they were on back order for 3 months.. and finally I found ONE, and the guy knew it was the only one left in the US.. but yet he still sold it for $1649, which is 30% off the retail price of $2300 or so.. even though I may have been tempted to pay that retail price as it was the only one! (supply and demand)..

So what is it with this 30% of stuff? Why not just re-adjust retail and be done with it?

Does any instrument sell at list? I've tested this on everything from low end SX to top end Martin and Gibson products, even the likes of Sadowsky and Lakeland do it..

Anyone have anything to add?

i recently ordered a american vintage jazz bass and paid 41% off list price with no money down to secure the order. this was not on the internet but a store i have been a customer of for years. this price was offered to me before i asked. for me, part of buying gear is developing relationships with people who come to know and trust me to make good on anything i order. i like to get to know the sales people and the management not only as employees but as individuals. sometimes i stop in just to say hello. ask about the wives or families, children, girlfriends ect. i'm sure they like to see me comming because i spend a lot of money there, but they have talked me out of buying stuff they felt i did not need. although for some, the internet is the only place to get certain things, the internet has made these types of purchases somewhat impersonal. it allows you to shop for the absolute rock bottom price and go store to store with your printed web page until you find someone willing to match it. this is not nessesarily bad, but i feel it is important to remember that this business and any business revolves around people. not just money. this may sound quaint and antiquated, but on the other hand i have always got more than 30% off list at my store of choice. and i will always be their customer. but that's just me as always, imho, ymmv, ect. peace, jeff

[morf]

Originally Posted by SamJ

Warning.. Rant follows..

Ok, at first I though that maybe Fender was the only ones that did this, but then I noticed the same thing on Ampeg, and now with having bought two new acoustic guitars, one a Taylor and one a Martin and I've seen the same thing.. the "general" rule is you take "list price" and take 30% or so off that and you get the "Street" price.. or basically the REAL price..

That is to say, if a guitar retails for $2700, and you can get it all day long at all stores for $2000, it's really a $2000 guitar, isn't it?

The really odd this is that you'll have certain instances such as when I was looking for a Fender American Deluxe FMT IV and called for 3 days straight literally ever store in the nation and nobody had them, as they were on back order for 3 months.. and finally I found ONE, and the guy knew it was the only one left in the US.. but yet he still sold it for $1649, which is 30% off the retail price of $2300 or so.. even though I may have been tempted to pay that retail price as it was the only one! (supply and demand)..

So what is it with this 30% of stuff? Why not just re-adjust retail and be done with it?

Does any instrument sell at list? I've tested this on everything from low end SX to top end Martin and Gibson products, even the likes of Sadowsky and Lakeland do it..

Anyone have anything to add?

Oh man you're making me even more envious of you Americans now... Here, not only are the prices not getting a 30% rebate, but they're already higher than the retail, not street, prices in the US. Meaning that for a bass you'd pay 500 bucks there, the list price here is 799 euros, which is like, 1000 bucks.

[SamJ]

I feel for the Europeans in terms of pricing.. I wonder however, is that price include the steep tax imposed? or is that price pre-tax?

I've noticed that in the UK, for the most part anything that costs X dollars in the us, will cost X Pound Sterling.. which is clearly a 50-60% increase in price! Crazy!