At what point does grooving become too much?

[JimK]

Originally Posted by DWBass

For contrast, I submit MarloweDK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GQ1F9HDVU

He's not tuned to Eb but I'll take his 'over the topness' over the original post's video.

That's fine, too...more 'note-for-note' than the OP's link. The OP's link, though, sounded more suitable for a live setting...more improv involved than a 'note-for-note' reading. This was a huge lesson for me when I heard Oteil playing Top-40.
I was stuck in a Note-for-Note rut.
Live? Bring it...you have not heard "The Bird" (The Time), "Sussudio" (Phil Collins), "This Is My Night" (Chaka Khan) until you heard Oteil play 'em.

...and get off that Eb-tuning!
¡Caramba!

[JimK]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

If the people can't dance, then too much groove, or sloppy groove.

Too much groove?

If dancers cannot dance...it's sloppy groove, i.e. bad meter.

[elgecko]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

If the people can't dance, then too much groove, or sloppy groove.

There's no such thing!

[SBsoundguy]

Originally Posted by DWBass

No complaints about Jamerson here. There's tasteful playing and then there's...........


For contrast, I submit MarloweDK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GQ1F9HDVU

He's not tuned to Eb but I'll take his 'over the topness' over the original post's video.

This is 10x more tasteful than the original video.

[bubinga5]

depends on the song.. this guy is very busy but its pretty amazing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZbAauYiNoc

[bluesblaster]

Everyone knows that its the guitar solo that people dance to.

[NYCbassist]

This is really such a great topic and I applaud the OP for the post. Taking the time to find out as much as you can on this is very important. Consider How busy the bass gets in "No way out" by the Allman Bro's. He gets real busy but Just the right amount. IMO there's really no way to teach you what he's doing. It's more of a feeling than a technique. This is what bass is to me! You have the root notes and the acceptable notes in the scale. Then the things you leave out or add in is based on a feel.
People ask what "Greasy" means all the time. At one time it was a Buzz word to help describe Being Busy without upsetting the groove. That's what Greasy will always mean to me. "Slide a little somethin' in there just for Yourself" "If nobody notices it then you did a great job!" Find that perfect line for You. The guy in the video in the OP was so obvious with his efforts. Not Greasy at all.

Again this is how I apply it for my Taste and I don't expect anyone to just accept it as Gospel. I am self taught and can't even read music.

[PlungerModerno]

Originally Posted by vin*tone

When it loses the basic pulse. Groove is rhythm. If the rhythm gets lost in a sea of chops it's no longer groovin.

This ^ ^ ^!

If there is another instrument keeping the basic flow you can afford brief departures from the basic feel - but for best results everything works together to get that groove going strong

An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW08GnKufQ8

[michael_atw]

My friend is in a band with a guitarist who plays bass. He overplays like hell. Runs and sweeps on the bass. I sort of went to the Entwistle school of thought but I try to be concerned with my "amount" of play. It has to fit the music. I don't go into a Celtic hymn and play lead bass in your face.

Depends on the drummer too.

[Strat-Mangler]

I agree that it's in the way of the vocals, regardless of the fact that he's a good player.

Imagine if Billie Jean had a busy bassline like that. It would totally destroy the song and be in the way of the vocals, especially in the chorus.

[bubinga5]

this is my sort of playing that bassline http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJzR...03dQ&index=348

[lokikallas]

Originally Posted by belzebass

I've been working on the same song recently. IMO, the original (Bob Babbitt's bassline) gets really busy and technical at times, but for he guy in the video, it's all the time. And he is working at upper register at the same time as vocals, trampling all over. He puts licks when the song is on "pause", thus stealing the "kick back in" effect

+1 he steps all over the break.

[lokikallas]

Originally Posted by bubinga5

this is my sort of playing that bassline http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJzR...03dQ&index=348

Nice. Sometimes the notes you don't play are more important than a silly fill.

[Kwesi]

The guy in the vid is a fantastic player. Not at all overplaying (though that first run was kinda "off"). Great blend of style and simplicity in my book.

In generally, I think it's kind of tough for bass players to overplay. If you really know what you're doing then you'll know where to put it all. It's definitely not impossible but the only time I really seem to hear regular overplaying is at unrehearsed jams and in some urban gospel stuff.

[mellowinman]

OK, I didn't read all the comments...

Did anyone point out that what the guy was playing TOTALLY SUCKED and ruined the song in every possible way? I had to take a second and listen to the original, professional tasteful bass line, that made use of space and the low register to give the song a groove.

When does grooving become too much? I don't know, but that guy never came close to anything even resembling grooving. He played garbage, and utterly destroyed the song in every possible way.

I spit on that cover. Pttooooo ptoooo pttoooo!!!!

Icky, yuck GROSS.

That was just despicable.

That performance actually offended me.

That was pure ANTI-GROOVE.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by DWBass

No complaints about Jamerson here. There's tasteful playing and then there's...........


For contrast, I submit MarloweDK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0GQ1F9HDVU

He's not tuned to Eb but I'll take his 'over the topness' over the original post's video.

That wasn't bad.

It was FAR superior than that horrible, horrible, horrible awful video that made me think about taking up kazoo.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

OK, I didn't read all the comments...

Did anyone point out that what the guy was playing TOTALLY SUCKED and ruined the song in every possible way? I had to take a second and listen to the original, professional tasteful bass line, that made use of space and the low register to give the song a groove.

When does grooving become too much? I don't know, but that guy never came close to anything even resembling grooving. He played garbage, and utterly destroyed the song in every possible way.

I spit on that cover. Pttooooo ptoooo pttoooo!!!!

Icky, yuck GROSS.

That was just despicable.

That performance actually offended me.

That was pure ANTI-GROOVE.

Yell us how you REALLY feel!

[Musiclogic]

In the OP and in Marlowedk's case, both players sarifice the song to showcase their chops. When the song becomes the casualty is when it's too much.

The song was not written and recorded as a bass showcase. If it were an instrumental, the case may be different, but this is the problem with a lot of groups that never get out of the basement or the bars. They load a band up with chops guys who don't understand how to play a song. Everything is about them and doing what they think is "cool" instead of playing the song.

Pocket players love these type of guys because they know they will never lose a job to them.

[Cycho]

A famous jazz guitarist (I forget who) wrote in Guitar Player magazine that he once got stuck with a pickup bass player who comped with a lot of fast upper register runs. He told the guy, "I think we BOTH need a bass player." Ouch! I never want to hear that about me.

[Musiclogic]

Originally Posted by Cycho

A famous jazz guitarist (I forget who) wrote in Guitar Player magazine that he once got stuck with a pickup bass player who comped with a lot of fast upper register runs. He told the guy, "I think we BOTH need a bass player." Ouch! I never want to hear that about me.

John McLaughlin about Hadrien Feraud? LOL