When gear really doesn't matter

[pklima]

Do you ever make a huge change in equipment and realize that no one else seems to notice the slightest difference?

A few months ago I got an e-mail from a band who heard some recordings I'm on, liked them, and therefore asked me if I'd be willing to record some cello parts for them. I politely explained that I don't play cello, have never touched a cello in my life, and there is no cello on the recordings in question. I do, however, play double bass and can bow it reasonably well, though I'm pretty much useless in the upper register. I got the job anyway and they're happy with the sounds.

Way back when I used to play guitar I played on a few folk albums using a big 18" wide archtop with heavy metal strings. I eventually sold it and bought a tiny 100-year-old 11 1/2" wide (yes, made for girls) parlor guitar with nylon strings and recorded a couple more folk albums with the same project. Someone might have noticed a difference in sound but I am aware of no one - not a single person - who thought it worth mentioning.

I've lost count of the number of times when a review of one of my albums has referred to a double bass part as cello or to a mandolin or mandoloncello part as guitar. At least once a reviewer mistook a banjo part for guitar.

It's all either amazing ignorance on the part of some musicians, music journalists and fans or a sign that we shouldn't worry whether a J or a P will sound better on a particular song and just use the bass which matches our clothes better!

Anyway, share your stories...

[SuperDuck]

I will have to say that for the most part I agree with you, though this can certainly stir up a hornet's nest of a discussion.

I think that gear can make a big enough difference that it can chane how people perceive what they're listening to, but it's typically subtle enough that they can't put their finger on it.

Overall though, I would say that people do overstate the important of X gear in a real life playing situation. If we could all just admit that we like shiny new toys, a new set of knobs to turn, a fun new pedel for the sake of having them then we'd be a step closer to being honest with ourselves!

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

I will have to say that for the most part I agree with you, though this can certainly stir up a hornet's nest of a discussion.

I think that gear can make a big enough difference that it can chane how people perceive what they're listening to, but it's typically subtle enough that they can't put their finger on it.

Overall though, I would say that people do overstate the important of X gear in a real life playing situation. If we could all just admit that we like shiny new toys, a new set of knobs to turn, a fun new pedel for the sake of having them then we'd be a step closer to being honest with ourselves!

Great post. I have changed out more gear over the last 5 years than many. The thing is, no one really noticed - not even other bass players. All of it was great gear, so it was very subtle changes - most of which were lost in a club and through FOH anyway.

People did notice my last switch to a tiny Shuttle 3.0-10T combo. But really, we all need to admit we like new stuff and the difference between bass A and bass B are lost on almost everyone.

[baba]

Originally Posted by SteveC

most of which were lost in a club and through FOH anyway.

This is why I have had the same rig for the last 6 years or so. I could pontificate further, but this topic is indeed a hornet's nest on a forum so focused on gear.

[The Golden Boy]

Over the past 20 years of playing out, I've figured out that 10% of your audience *MAY* be able to notice BAD tone. 1-3% might recognize good tone. The rest- enjoy the music for what it is.

For the most part, gear is for the player.

[pklima]

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

For the most part, gear is for the player.

Agreed - there is a difference in how much work it is to get the needed sound and how much effort it is to transport and set up.

[Brad Johnson]

I don't play based on what an audience can comprehend. Never have. I play for me and so far, if I'm really happy there's a strong chance they will be too.

I can tell the difference and that's what's important to me. I don't change out gear so much as just add to what I have. I've been happy with my equipment for more than twenty years but that doesn't mean I can't be happy with something else too.

I look at the "audience doesn't know the difference" thing as a cop-out. No offense.

[SuperDuck]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

I look at the "audience doesn't know the difference" thing as a cop-out. No offense.

A cop-out to what?

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

A cop-out to what?

Not putting your best sound out there. "Why bother?"

That's what I mean.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Not putting your best sound out there. "Why bother?"

That's what I mean.

I hear you. Nothing wrong with wanting to sound your best. I do, too.

I am not advocating that we all play Sears basses. I'm just saying the difference between a good Genz Benz rig, or GK, or whatever probably isn't that perceptible to the average listener and maybe we all don't need to dwell on gear so much and focus more on playing.

The thing is, it's more fun and easier to talk about if amp A is better than amp B.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I hear you. Nothing wrong with wanting to sound your best. I do, too.

I am not advocating that we all play Sears basses. I'm just saying the difference between a good Genz Benz rig, or GK, or whatever probably isn't that perceptible to the average listener and maybe we all don't need to dwell on gear so much and focus more on playing.

And I'm saying I don't care if the average listener can or cannot tell... "I" can. I'm not playing down to the lowest common denominator.

And I focused on playing first a long time ago. I've been polishing the stone for a long time now.

I do know that some bassists can't tell the difference and I agree that if they have no desire or need to learn how to, cool. Use whatever gets you through the gig in one piece. Play to that average audince member's ear. I know comments like that usually provoke cries of "elitist" but hey, life's too short, no point in bs'ing around a basic point

The thing is, it's more fun and easier to talk about if amp A is better than amp B.

I take a different approach. I try stuff out and if it pushes my buttons and I'm in a position to use it, I do. Me thinking something is better or someone else thinking something else is better is pointless IMO except for the person who's actually going to use it

I like to find stuff I'm happy with and it then becomes a non-issue. I'm not fighting it to try to make it sound like I want, it's not just "bearable", I actually enjoy using it. I could gig with anything but since I don't have to, why should I?*
. When I go on gigs I go in with the confidence that I know what I'm doing and my gear is something I don't have to think about anymore. Show up, plug and play. It's a beautiful thing.





*rhetorical question

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

And I'm saying I don't care if the average listener can or cannot tell... "I" can. I'm not playing down to the lowest common denominator.

I agree, and don't think it is elitist. Maybe the average listener is not paying attention to your every note, heck there are some who can't (should say don't) even pick out individual instruments, it just sounds like one big wall of sound. However... any one of those people can still tell the difference between a great band, a mediocre band, and a horrid band. A band's sound being the sum of its parts, and one of those parts being YOUR tone.

Plus - I find that when I dig my sound, I am inspired to play better, or at least I become more enthusiastic, and am sure this is communicated to listeners.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by BillMason

I agree, and don't think it is elitist. Maybe the average listener is not paying attention to your every note, heck there are some who can't (should say don't) even pick out individual instruments, it just sounds like one big wall of sound. However... any one of those people can still tell the difference between a great band, a mediocre band, and a horrid band. A band's sound being the sum of its parts, and one of those parts being YOUR tone.

Plus - I find that when I dig my sound, I am inspired to play better, or at least I become more enthusiastic, and am sure this is communicated to listeners.

And that is my fundamental point. If you're happy, it's contagious.

[KennethB]

Well, gear matter to me, and I'm the one playing!!!

I like my gear but I'm always open to trying out new stuff just for the fun of it.

For instance, this weekend some friends had a private party at a rented club to which I was invited.
A lot of my music friends and former bandmates and so forth came as well.
At the party they had set up full band gear and PA, all miced and ready to go. The bass gear was a Ibanez Soundgear 500, and a Peavey amp of some sort (not exactly my favorite set-up). Who's playing?, I wondered. It turned out it was for whomever knew the songs. I wasn't expecting to play at all.
Anyway, long story short, I ended up playing for almost 2 hours and I had a blast. It sounded pretty damn good. The audience was great too.

So to sum it up my attidude is that I prefer my own gear but I'll play just about anything.

[The Golden Boy]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

I don't play based on what an audience can comprehend. Never have. I play for me and so far, if I'm really happy there's a strong chance they will be too.

I can tell the difference and that's what's important to me. I don't change out gear so much as just add to what I have. I've been happy with my equipment for more than twenty years but that doesn't mean I can't be happy with something else too.

I look at the "audience doesn't know the difference" thing as a cop-out. No offense.

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

And I'm saying I don't care if the average listener can or cannot tell... "I" can. I'm not playing down to the lowest common denominator.

And I focused on playing first a long time ago. I've been polishing the stone for a long time now.

I do know that some bassists can't tell the difference and I agree that if they have no desire or need to learn how to, cool. Use whatever gets you through the gig in one piece. Play to that average audince member's ear. I know comments like that usually provoke cries of "elitist" but hey, life's too short, no point in bs'ing around a basic point



I take a different approach. I try stuff out and if it pushes my buttons and I'm in a position to use it, I do. Me thinking something is better or someone else thinking something else is better is pointless IMO except for the person who's actually going to use it

I like to find stuff I'm happy with and it then becomes a non-issue. I'm not fighting it to try to make it sound like I want, it's not just "bearable", I actually enjoy using it. I could gig with anything but since I don't have to, why should I?*
. When I go on gigs I go in with the confidence that I know what I'm doing and my gear is something I don't have to think about anymore. Show up, plug and play. It's a beautiful thing.





*rhetorical question

Although I agree with some of what you're saying- I disagree with the premise of the "cop out."

I've seen FAR too many people struggle with the issue of what's "best." When you get too far into that, you get into the whole issue of buying tone. I've seen far too many people thumping their chests about their $300 6' power cable, or their non-oxygenated-hypo-allergenic-platinum-infused instrument cable, or their endagered Brazillian RW bodied instruments with Bald Eagle claw binding, or depleted uranium strings...

In the guitar world, you'll see guys dumping thousands of dollars to reproduce sounds of guys who took off the shelf instruments, off the shelf amps and plugged in with a $5 instrument cable and used effects that were positively stone age in comparison with today. But they do it boo-teek.

I've heard guys slay with a Harmony Strat knockoff into a Peavey Classic, and I've heard guys stink up a 200 capacity club with a 100w metal panel 69 Marshall and 2 4x12s, and everything in between.

If you get the right gear for what you're looking for, and that gear is reliable, sounds good to you, and fits with the band and into the mix- the gear issue is solved. After that point, it's about you- your ego, your insecurity, your buying power, your valuation of your self worth... But the gear issue is done.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

Although I agree with some of what you're saying- I disagree with the premise of the "cop out."

I've seen FAR too many people struggle with the issue of what's "best." When you get too far into that, you get into the whole issue of buying tone. I've seen far too many people thumping their chests about their $300 6' power cable, or their non-oxygenated-hypo-allergenic-platinum-infused instrument cable, or their endagered Brazillian RW bodied instruments with Bald Eagle claw binding, or depleted uranium strings...

In the guitar world, you'll see guys dumping thousands of dollars to reproduce sounds of guys who took off the shelf instruments, off the shelf amps and plugged in with a $5 instrument cable and used effects that were positively stone age in comparison with today. But they do it boo-teek.

I've heard guys slay with a Harmony Strat knockoff into a Peavey Classic, and I've heard guys stink up a 200 capacity club with a 100w metal panel 69 Marshall and 2 4x12s, and everything in between.

If you get the right gear for what you're looking for, and that gear is reliable, sounds good to you, and fits with the band and into the mix- the gear issue is solved. After that point, it's about you- your ego, your insecurity, your buying power, your valuation of your self worth... But the gear issue is done.

By "cop out" I'm specifically talking about people who half-ass it because the audience supposedly doesn't know any better, hey, they're drunk or any number of other lame reasons for not trying. Apparently you don't see that as a cop out. I do.

The thing you're missing is that the gear doesn't even sound good to the bassist but hey, the audience can't tell the difference. Well, you can and if you don't care about putting something out there that you don't even like, that IMO is a cop out.


This has zip to do with $300 cables and anything of that ilk. The other major cop out is when they won't spend the time honing their craft and blame decent equipment when the problem is them.

I think you're confusing getting the best gear and getting the most expensive gear. The best gear for what you're doing hardly has to cost very much at all. For instance I use a $600 head and a pair of relatively inexpensive cabs from a local guy few people have even heard of for my gigs. That's not boo teek. It's also not lacking in any way.

The best gear does what you want it to do AND you can afford it. If you're struggling to pay for it IMO it's not the best gear for you

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by KennethB

Well, gear matter to me, and I'm the one playing!!!

I like my gear but I'm always open to trying out new stuff just for the fun of it.

For instance, this weekend some friends had a private party at a rented club to which I was invited.
A lot of my music friends and former bandmates and so forth came as well.
At the party they had set up full band gear and PA, all miced and ready to go. The bass gear was a Ibanez Soundgear 500, and a Peavey amp of some sort (not exactly my favorite set-up). Who's playing?, I wondered. It turned out it was for whomever knew the songs. I wasn't expecting to play at all.
Anyway, long story short, I ended up playing for almost 2 hours and I had a blast. It sounded pretty damn good. The audience was great too.

So to sum it up my attidude is that I prefer my own gear but I'll play just about anything.

Me too and I'll pick up just about anything and play it.

I went to our first local GTG years ago and I brought several high end basses for the guys to check out (various brands). In the meantime I picked up somebody's SX (IIRC) fretless and was having a ball with it. A good bass is a good bass as far as I'm concerned.

Now if I took that (or any) bass out on a gig and it wouldn't stay in tune and said: "Well, the audience doesn't know any better..."