When you have to think....

seanm · #1 05-16-2006, 11:10 PM

So you start out learning a song that is relatively busy. Specifically here it is "East Bound and Down" but any song will do. You start slow and slowly get it up to speed. At some point you get to where you just play it, you don't even think about it. Years go by.

Then you have to play it really slow. If you are me tonight, you completely screw up. When I started thinking about the notes, I lost them! Yet I can run through the song no problem at full speed. I suspose it is just muscle memory.

Luckily it was at a practice and not a gig.

This ever happen to anybody else?

seanm · #2 05-17-2006, 11:05 AM

Huh, just as I expected. It's just me

tZer · #3 05-17-2006, 11:15 AM

Nah, you are not alone, I am sure. Now this never happens to me, but...

When you say, "Years go by..." Do you mean:
A) That years go by and you don't play the song very much or at all?
Or do you mean:
B) Years of playing the song normal speed go by then suddenly someone decides they want to play the song 'half speed'?

Either way, I can see how a song that became second nature to you (committed to muscle memory) suddenly becomes foreign. And to be completely honest, there are songs we play pretty much every gig and I still run across the odd speed-bump where my brain just decides it cannot recall what the next chord is...

***Dirty Harry voice in my head...***
"So you may be asking yourself; is the next chord a G or is it an A. Being that we have played so many chords up to this point, I am not really sure myself. So I guess you gotta ask yourself, "Do you feel luck, punk? Well? Do ya?"

Then I slam my fingers down on one of the two chord options and sometimes get it right...

Seriously, I hear Dirty Harry when I am having on stage man vs. himself struggles...

seanm · #4 05-17-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

Nah, you are not alone, I am sure. Now this never happens to me, but...

When you say, "Years go by..." Do you mean:
A) That years go by and you don't play the song very much or at all?
Or do you mean:
B) Years of playing the song normal speed go by then suddenly someone decides they want to play the song 'half speed'?

Mainly B. In this case it is a song I practice maybe twice a month just because it is a fun song. We almost never play it in a band situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

***Dirty Harry voice in my head...***
"So you may be asking yourself; is the next chord a G or is it an A. Being that we have played so many chords up to this point, I am not really sure myself. So I guess you gotta ask yourself, "Do you feel luck, punk? Well? Do ya?"

Then I slam my fingers down on one of the two chord options and sometimes get it right...

Seriously, I hear Dirty Harry when I am having on stage man vs. himself struggles...

I get temporary lapses all the time ... minus the Dirty Harry

invader3k · #5 05-17-2006, 12:17 PM

I guess I haven't had that exact problem, but I've done dumb things like start a song in a completely wrong key, after taking a couple weeks off from a song at practice, etc.

Ed Fuqua · #6 05-17-2006, 12:46 PM

There really isn't anything called "muscle memory". Your muscles don't have a seperate brain that "remebers" things. Repetitive movement just needs less thought with more repetition. Your muscles don't remember, you just don't have to think about it.

But the bottom line is that you don't "really" know the song, you have just kind of memorized where to put your fingers. If it's in your ear with enough clarity AND you have the wherewithal to play (not hunt and peck) what you are hearing clearly, then it doesn't matter WHAT tempo, you play the MUSIC.

Not the geographic location or the pattern.

seanm · #7 05-17-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

But the bottom line is that you don't "really" know the song, you have just kind of memorized where to put your fingers. If it's in your ear with enough clarity AND you have the wherewithal to play (not hunt and peck) what you are hearing clearly, then it doesn't matter WHAT tempo, you play the MUSIC.

You are probably right. Thinking back this is one of the very few songs I have only played in the original key. Yes, at least two *different* country singers played in the same key as the original!

Usually I learn the song, then transpose it. And probably have to transpose it again when I actually play it. All the while modifying it to fit the singer.

Bassbarbie · #8 05-17-2006, 04:23 PM

In live situations if the drummers started us off too slow, I've been caught out. Especially if I've been singing the lead as well - nightmare! I reckon it's because you start thinking about where to play the notes instead of it being automatic.

Granted perhaps you should be able to hear it in your head, but that's not easy if you're singing - and you lose continuity if it's too slow.

Mind you I've been known to suddenly forget words that I've sang a hundred times with no problem, so maybe there's no hope for me!

tZer · #9 05-17-2006, 05:07 PM

Well, if you are my guitar players you NEVER have problems like that - oh, except that one time... but that was because my strap slipped... oh, yeah... and that other time... but that was because the drummer hit his china boy instead of the crash... oh yeah... and that other time - but that was because the bass player tried a new lick...

lol - some musicians are just perfect, aren't they? I wish I could be good like them.

**Pacman** · #10 05-17-2006, 05:46 PM

Once again, Ed beats me to it.

seanm · #11 05-17-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

If it's in your ear with enough clarity.

I think this was the real problem. I couldn't "hear" the song in my head and I paniced. I knew it was supposed to be East Bound and Down, but it didn't *sound* right. And I understand what you mean, there where no problems with the volume in the room.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I should have just pretended I didn't know the song at all and just played along, ignoring the recorded bass line and just making one up.

P. Aaron · #12 05-17-2006, 07:40 PM

Many songs I have to play I do not neccesarily enjoy as songs but, you still learn it as true as possible to play the song correctly, or whatever the arrangement/situation requires.

After I have "learned" a particular song, I "mess with it" by changing chords to their "alter egos", and change tempo just to see how it affects the feel and 'sound'. It seems to help me remember the nuances that give songs their character.

This helps me remember as well if not better than playing a song over and over does. Different, but it works for me.