Where are we heading in the music industry ?

[Mayers]

Hi all, I wanted to state something that really hit me hard in the past 6 years as a musician.

What the F*** is going on with the music industry ? I see many musicaly boring band going so big while John Patitucci is still unknown outside of jazz community.

I think there is something really wrong. Lady Gaga a big artist ??? Are you kidding me ??? Remove her costumes and her choregraphies and you're left with empty boring music made by a computer. Seriously, when someone go to her show is more about seeing her costumes or seeing her dance than for the music. So it isn't about the music but more about fashion.

While we have great musician and composer today that won't receive any recognition for the quality of their music but Lady Gaga will receive many trophies for her empty tasteless music.

I talk about Lady Gaga but it is relevant to many other "artiste" of today "music". So I think "artist" of today "music" are more concerned about their look, marketing and being star than being good musician and delivering art quality.

Music looks like it is only a tool for being seeing, being a star because you can suck hard and still sell billions of CDs and so you can sell something else, be in a movie etc.

Sometime I think that I shouldn't have studied or being able to play stuff like A show of hands by Victor Wooten, I only needed to play low E for 5 minutes or be good with a computer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy to have studied music and have made so far in that journey, but I'm sad to see this art form being used for mediocre artist to be star. You don't see mediocre dancer, nor mediocre painter. So why we encourage them ? The message I'm receiving from this is : we want very simple(dumb) stuff because we can't appreciate art nor true talent ( this may not be true in Europe where classical music is still very important ).

What do you think ?

[hernameisrio]

I work in the music industry so I'm trying to be careful about how I phrase things here. Part of what I've noticed is that peoples' standards aren't as high because they think everything can be easily fixed in the recording...they aren't willing to pay as much for said recording because they think they can do it at home and do it just as well if not better...and bands don't seem to play as tightly because they just aren't as nurtured and produced and molded when they're new; nobody invests in them except themselves, which makes it harder to truly be objective about how you sound.

Also, not a lot of people buy music anymore, so instead bands have to make money touring/playing live/selling merchandise...which is probably why you see a lot more bands trying to get into commercials or on TV shows or anything other than putting out an album. The labels aren't supporting the artists as much or paying for as much as they used to, and the artists don't seem to care.

So, that's basically the problem, and as for where we're headed, everyone keeps telling me that analog tape is "coming back" and becoming "trendy," so maybe we're finally on the upswing...? It doesn't help that "everyone" is an engineer now, or wants to be. And the only prerequisites for being a good engineer nowadays, is knowing Pro Tools. So things are falling apart on both sides of the glass...and yeah...it sucks. On the other hand, as someone who works in this business, I have to try to be positive, or it will be even harder to find work and decent people to play with and so on. So I try to just focus on the fact that at least the older music is still there to inspire people, and the vintage gear is making a comeback.

I know where you're coming from in regards to studying music. I'm classically trained as a pianist and I feel like it's a bit of a waste because I'm sick of not being able to find people to play with who understand music theory and have a decent sense of what sounds good. I've gotten really frustrated as a keyboardist because I get so sick of everyone telling me to "keep it simple." Simple is not always better!

On the other hand, you just have to have faith that there will always be good people around to work with and play with...it's just harder to find them nowadays.

[stratovani]

I agree with you, but then again I'm a geezer. I only listen to music made before 1990 or so. All this Lady Gaga stuff is simply capitalism in action. She sells a product, and there's a group of people willing to buy it, just like all those stupid supermarket tabloids you see at the checkout line. It actually says a lot more about her audience than it does about her. She's laughing all the way to the bank, just like the Kardashians!

[jbybj]

You think what you describe is new? or a recent development? The BS nature of celebrity, talent, and success in any artistic endeavor, is timeless.

To make, or enjoy great art, does not require "success", and they are often mutually exclusive. I put my entertainment dollars where it interests me. Miss Gaga has none of my money.

[HeadyVan Halen]

You don't think Music Companies actually care about 'true music' do you? Really?
Companies are only concerned with making money. Period.

Tired of seeing this type of thread.

You don't make money because your good.
You make money because people BUY something from you.

[bassbully]

It suks period and I'm gald to see I am not part of the mainstream pop,rock, rap mess that's out there. I dont listen to mainstream radio or its artists. I follow more underground,regional and local music where the artists are really working hard for the fan and dollar.

There is a good growing scene in the folk,roots,Americana movement but then there a few bands nationally screwing that up too. I follow that music scene it's bands and performers that allot of people dont know or at least more pure music fans seem to know,find and follow. I dont think the music industry will ever be like it was in the 70's 80' even 90's but there is a great movement of small labels and local ,regional and national bands and performers that keep it interesting for me.

[seanm]

I have noticed in Ottawa that in the last few years there have been more venues that cater to original bands. While not a good thing for me as a musician (I play in a cover band), it is a good thing for me as a music lover

[lpdeluxe]

I just recently watched a 5-DVD "History of Rock" compilation and was astonished at how history repeats itself. When I was in junior high (for you children, that's what is now known as "middle school") rock was starting out, with Carl Perkins and Elvis and Chuck Berry and all the rest. What most people don't think about that era is that the popular music on the radio was not rock, it was heavily produced music featuring vocalists in front of an orchestra, recorded by highly trained engineers in huge, acoustically designed studios. Rock came along and turned that all upside down by selling huge numbers of records with limited recording and musical knowledge. That was a dire time for "real" musicians. Fortunately, the early rockabilly style evolved into more professionally done music, and the world was restored to its axis.

For a while. Remember the '60s? There was another explosion of hitherto-unsuspected musical styles, and off we went again into the intuitive, unschooled psychedelic era. That evolved into the '70s, when Debbie Boone could be a rock star, and THAT evolved into our beloved "corporate rock" of the '80s. I watched that DVD of the collection with unfeigned tears: David Bowie? Alice Cooper? What happened to MUSIC? Of course, they were the Lady Gagas of their day. And don't forget disco, since someone mentioned computer-generated music.

What came out of that? Why, punk, of course. And rap, and hip-hop and a lot of other genres that an old guy like this writer find obscenely unmusical and dissatisfying. But by God, they're not Lady Gaga!

What to do, what to do?

Me, I play music. Maybe I'm just not on a professional level where I'm competing with crap, but music still enriches my life. There is always a place for musical skills, and musical taste, regardless of what sort of dreck is being spoon-fed to the masses.

And all this will change. Life IS change. If some carriages-and-fours turn into pumpkins, so do VW beetles evolve into Beetles (I guess that's a good thing: my girl friend thinks it's bad).

[DWBass]

I've been in and out the music 'business' and have many friends who are in the business (execs and artists). Sales are aimed at the majority buying demographic (teens) and most teens do not play instruments nor have a good ear for what's really good. A good gimic and songs with a decent hook sell....period (to teens that is). Producers have also overrun the business. Some making more than the artists! Most 'artists' are clones of each other! No unique voices. They use the same beats & chords progressions. Every now and then, something different! You also have corporate radio to blame! Clear Channel for one has literally done away with Jazz/Smooth Jazz/Contemporary Jazz or any progressive working radio stations. They dictate playlists and change formats like it's nothing. Many markets have 4-5 stations playing the same crap! The kids have nothing else to listen to! It's forced on them! Rihanna will literally be played 30-40 times a day! A Jill Scott, Ledisi, Brian McKnight or Kem?? Maybe a couple times! Maybe never!

[jlane72t]

Personally I *LOVE* what's going on with the music industry.

There will always be people who don't really care about musicianship and just want the same easily-digested pre-fab everyone else seems to like (the vast majority). And there will always be people who *DO* care about real music.

Nothing you can do about the former. Same as it's always been. Big Industry has it locked up.

With today's technology, we've got more opportunities than ever before to reach the latter. DIY is alive and well, and being creative in your marketing wins the day.

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by HeadyVan Halen

You don't think Music Companies actually care about 'true music' do you? Really?
Companies are only concerned with making money. Period.

Tired of seeing this type of thread.

You don't make money because your good.
You make money because people BUY something from you.

Exactly. There's ALWAYS been crap music that makes money since Tin Pan Alley started up in the late 1800s. I'm sure even Mozart had his detractors, or thought his stuff was crap made for the masses, and they should have really been listening to somebody far more obscure.

I thought this was a thread about the changing economics of the music industry. THAT'S interesting to me.

This thread's subject:

[fraublugher]

Keep music in your life to enrich your life , and learn to put blinders on for the gagas etc...,

Keeping intervals smaller than a minor third so children can sing it has been around forever , the fact that it became the most selling economic model was the pied piper letting the cat out of the bag.

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by jlane72t

Personally I *LOVE* what's going on with the music industry.

There will always be people who don't really care about musicianship and just want the same easily-digested pre-fab everyone else seems to like (the vast majority). And there will always be people who *DO* care about real music.

Nothing you can do about the former. Same as it's always been. Big Industry has it locked up.

With today's technology, we've got more opportunities than ever before to reach the latter. DIY is alive and well, and being creative in your marketing wins the day.

This is also very true.

The Big Music Industries of Yore are dying very fast. Next on the chopping block are radio stations, as the Internet will likely provide the main source for music listening in the near future.

I honestly think that 30 years from now, we'll look back at the time between ~2005 or so until another 5-10 years from now as a Golden Age for music. Big music companies still have alot of control over what gets on the radio and eventually what gets bought by kids today. That's probably going to change very fast, unless some of the big industries get their way with a few laws that are being worked on.

I think that we'll look back on fondly at all the creativity and volume of new, independent music that's going to get out to the masses thanks to the Internet. There's never been a time like this where big music industries didn't have control over most of what kids today hear since the 1880s or so. These are totally crazy times in the music industry!

[Mayers]

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

I just recently watched a 5-DVD "History of Rock" compilation and was astonished at how history repeats itself. When I was in junior high (for you children, that's what is now known as "middle school") rock was starting out, with Carl Perkins and Elvis and Chuck Berry and all the rest. What most people don't think about that era is that the popular music on the radio was not rock, it was heavily produced music featuring vocalists in front of an orchestra, recorded by highly trained engineers in huge, acoustically designed studios. Rock came along and turned that all upside down by selling huge numbers of records with limited recording and musical knowledge. That was a dire time for "real" musicians. Fortunately, the early rockabilly style evolved into more professionally done music, and the world was restored to its axis.

For a while. Remember the '60s? There was another explosion of hitherto-unsuspected musical styles, and off we went again into the intuitive, unschooled psychedelic era. That evolved into the '70s, when Debbie Boone could be a rock star, and THAT evolved into our beloved "corporate rock" of the '80s. I watched that DVD of the collection with unfeigned tears: David Bowie? Alice Cooper? What happened to MUSIC? Of course, they were the Lady Gagas of their day. And don't forget disco, since someone mentioned computer-generated music.

What came out of that? Why, punk, of course. And rap, and hip-hop and a lot of other genres that an old guy like this writer find obscenely unmusical and dissatisfying. But by God, they're not Lady Gaga!

What to do, what to do?

Me, I play music. Maybe I'm just not on a professional level where I'm competing with crap, but music still enriches my life. There is always a place for musical skills, and musical taste, regardless of what sort of dreck is being spoon-fed to the masses.

And all this will change. Life IS change. If some carriages-and-fours turn into pumpkins, so do VW beetles evolve into Beetles (I guess that's a good thing: my girl friend thinks it's bad).

First I'm not old :P I'm only 28.

I may cry too to see that documentary. I know that a lot of rock hero of the past like Elvis, Alice Cooper and David Bowie etc were the Lady Gaga of their time, they played music for real and it show. Even if I'm not impress.

And you are right, I don't like Rap, Hip Hop nor RnB. None of them are real gangsta like they say, well NWA was real gangsta but don't make me laugh with R. Kelly or Kanye West.

Music may be more professionnaly recorded but I think it is little too much now. It sound so perfect, sometime it is unreal, it as to be a computer doing the work. This is something I like about old jazz record or classical music. They won't do like 1000 takes of a bass drum until it is perfect at the perfect second with the perfect velocity and so putting 2 years in the studio for a record that took 2 weeks to write and practice.

[Mayers]

Originally Posted by jbybj

You think what you describe is new? or a recent development? The BS nature of celebrity, talent, and success in any artistic endeavor, is timeless.

To make, or enjoy great art, does not require "success", and they are often mutually exclusive. I put my entertainment dollars where it interests me. Miss Gaga has none of my money.

No I didn't think it is new but it struck me, maybe because we are so bombarded now.

[guitar<bass]

Originally Posted by jlane72t

Personally I *LOVE* what's going on with the music industry.

There will always be people who don't really care about musicianship and just want the same easily-digested pre-fab everyone else seems to like (the vast majority). And there will always be people who *DO* care about real music.

Nothing you can do about the former. Same as it's always been. Big Industry has it locked up.

With today's technology, we've got more opportunities than ever before to reach the latter. DIY is alive and well, and being creative in your marketing wins the day.

This is somewhat how I feel. I have zero musical training and I have no family or friends to play with. But I can make a song. This hasn't always been the case. I have a good computer but that isn't even necessary. It seems like we're headed to some sort of musical revolution or at least, one has begun.

With YouTube making nobodies into headliners and Facebook making marketing almost too easy and now there's the gaining popularity of actual band promoting sites that I've seen a lot of you use, it just seems that things are falling into place for a lot of people that otherwise had no chance to make music.

One thing to consider though, is the fact that in this current age, you can learn about, see, and hear anything. The legwork is no longer that daunting. With that being said.. I don't think artists will be able to stay on top like they could years ago. You just don't have to devote the energy that you used to.

Imagine a room with 50 rock bands who are all making good music. 10 of them have the right connections to get signed, the rest are just not gonna make it because of lack of opportunity. That's the old scene. The new scene is a bunch of guys with thumb drives full of music that's been pieced together in a month.
Now, though, if you make it big, you gotta keep making it big for 10+ yrs to be considered epic like the greater of the 60's and 70's. because if you don't, the spotlight shifts so frigging fast that you'll forget you were on top.

I guess in summary, I think that the real question is "Is it bad that now there are more bands than ever with actual demoes/albums available?" or "Is it our fault or having such short attention spans?"


Im not very well-spoken.. but I almost made my point.

[Bassmunnky]

Gee, they said the same thing about the Beatles. Yeah..they did.

There are billion genres now - and a billion ways to get it. How many posted here DON'T have an Mp3 on their computer they have not paid for? Yeah Sure.

Ever hear of BLEU..go ahead..google him

The NINES?

Great art is out there by the ton.

There's plenty of CRAP, on commercial radio/Video, at the highest level and high school level to sift through.

It's an amazing time to be a musician.

Just have to know how to get your music out there...if you don't well....okay.

SOMEBODY is buying Lady GaGa's crap...maybe you should figure out why...it ain't just the outfits. It's not high art..but hey...I'd learn from her (that means I'm trying to figure it out myself)

[mantrabass]

Lady Gaga is actually a pretty incredible musician under her tabloid facade...

[jmattbassplaya]

No offense, but I don't think you understand that the music industry is really an entertainment industry.

[Mayers]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Exactly. There's ALWAYS been crap music that makes money since Tin Pan Alley started up in the late 1800s. I'm sure even Mozart had his detractors, or thought his stuff was crap made for the masses, and they should have really been listening to somebody far more obscure.

I thought this was a thread about the changing economics of the music industry. THAT'S interesting to me.

Well many classical composer worked for a king or someone of very high importance. So yeah it was somewhat the pop music of their time but it was ( it still ) much much much complex and rich than what you can hear on the radio.

I have a book about the life of Frederyck Chopin and about the Valse Brillante Waltz#2 OP34-1 was made in Vienna after the insurgence of Poland for it's independency fail. They wanted more cheerful music and this was the "in" music. They said Chopin hate it with a passion, so much that he furiously played the final that we know today after that he leaved the place and played his personal piano in his room like a mad man.

It still is on another level than the music around us.