Where's the money at for artists?

[Colonel_Claypoo]

hello folks,

i always thought, with record sale going down and all, it's playing live shows and selling merch. However, when i read this interview of NILE's karl sanders, it got me pondering. it's one of the bigger metal bands nowadays and they seem to be struggeling. maybe what karl says only relates to the metal genre, don't know.
i couldn't find any better examples to illustrate my point but i think it's ok.

so where do artists nowaday make their money?
read for yourself.
i copied the parts so you don't have to read trough the whole interview. i hope that's ok.

"Given how tough everything is for bands nowadays, how is Nile holding up?
Taking a beating. In the age of downloading, everyone thinks that all the money will be made on tour. Dude, that’s also where we’re getting hit really hard. Just the rising cost of transportation — the bus and the cost of diesel fuel — is our biggest ****ing expense. That stuff has skyrocketed, yet we don’t see an increase in the amount of money from the promoters. They might be charging higher ticket prices to kids, but that money is not really trickling down to us. We’re getting it on all sides, man. Some of the larger cities are imposing higher and higher fees for selling your merch. Concert T-shirts are at a stupid[ly high] price now because you get taxed 40 to 45% right out of the gate, off the top. The band has to buy the shirts to start off with, and somebody is taking 40% of the gross in every city. It’s no picnic out there.

edit: i just found a great video by david ellefson that describes how selling merchandise works.
http://www.youtube.com/user/davidell...10/h4ZDP9jhnyE
and also have a look at this one of his:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXps2DIr9gM

Many musicians are now doing other things on the side to make more money.
I’m giving guitar lessons, and I’ve got my side project, so that helps a little bit. But times are tough, man, and I don’t see them getting any better.

As far as production, how much comes out of your pocket and how much comes out of their pocket?
That’s a funny one because today I got my balance sheet for the record budget, and in there is $900 worth of expenses that I turned in that I didn’t get reimbursed for and had to eat. That’s always a bone of contention there, and it’s not going to get any better. CD sales are declining 35% each successive year, so in the next five years we’re going to see bands have their budgets completely slashed. We have to take a budget cut as well.

That makes your career more expensive.
Yeah, it means we take the hit. All record companies are going to go out of business in the next five years. So what does that mean? How does that translate down to us? That means that if we want to have a record deal, the amount of available record contracts will shrink. The amount of money the record companies can afford to pay you is going to shrink. But the costs to make these records is not going to shrink. Think about that. So that means a music career, making records, is not going to be easy in the foreseeable future. It’s going to get tougher.

So what is the game plan for Nile?
It boils down to how we are going to make money to counteract that. We’re talking about expanding into new, emerging world markets, like India and China, where there is a middle class that has disposable income. People in China have jobs. There’s work there. They have disposable income.


thanks

[brianrost]

All I can add is that even at the local and regional touring level I'm at, it's the same...gigs drying up, gig pay flat since the 80s, sponsorships for promoters are gone, etc.

See, trickle down economics really does work

[robthegaff]

I am a student with a summer job (and christmas but less work) and use this to support the small semi-pro band. It's tough work finding paying gigs and you can't rely on friends support forever so we're weathering the financial storm as best we can.

[Jazz Ad]

I'm afraid the money's nowhere anymore.

[Colonel_Claypoo]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

I'm afraid the money's nowhere anymore.

yeah and i think even the live gig market is way overcrowded.
it's not like 30 years ago anymore when there weren't so many bands playing in your area i think. nowadays, there's gigs everywhere at every time you could attend. for the future, i predict that people won't go to concerts as much as they used to...

[Valerus]

Well this is discomforting.

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by Colonel_Claypoo

..we don’t see an increase in the amount of money from the promoters. They might be charging higher ticket prices to kids, but that money is not really trickling down to us...

We did 2 weeks of one-nighters about 6 weeks ago and the band actually recieved LESS (about 2/3 of what we recieved last year - in 2008) with all of the promoters moaning about the "financial crisis" . . .

Originally Posted by brianrost

...gig pay flat since the 80s...

Not that I've seen . . . it's LESS now . . . . . .

[JT Bass]

One word: plastics.

[Colonel_Claypoo]

Originally Posted by JT Bass

One word: plastics.

are you saying: go back to buying cd's or give me your credit cards?

[JT Bass]

Ha, you can have my credit cards (and the debt thereon) if you want!

Plastics is the "what to do with your life" advice given to Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate... I didn't really have any point with my comment, other than that may be where the money's at. I don't know much about the music industry, and even less about any metal released since about 1991, but I am sure the era of getting 'found' on Sunset Strip, getting signed to a big contract and 'making it big' with the backing of a major label is winding down.

On the plus side, you don't need a lot of money these days to get a product out to your targeted audience, and I think people still want to see their favorite bands live. Can you sell enough tickets and merch to make it worth your while? I dunno. But I don't think you need to sell your soul to a bunch of managers, promoters, etc., to sell tickets anymore. Over in the Band Management forum there's as many DIY success stories as there are bummer stories about bands getting squeezed.

I often wonder about certain 'one hit wonders' or 'flash in the pan' bands. The other day I heard the 1997 hit "Sex and Candy" by Marcy Playground. Catchy song, and it was everywhere for about six months. Now you might hear it in the supermarket (as I did). That album went platinum. Did they make enough money off that to invest wisely and retire to a beach somewhere? Or at least not have to work everyday and maybe supplement an income with some studio work, etc.? They toured last year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcy_Playground), do people go see them? I have no idea.

If a band can have an album go platinum and not be able to afford a house with a two car garage than maybe plastics is the answer. Of course that's a total Debbie Downer. We play because we enjoy it, right? Interestingly, great quote from the lead singer of that band on his wiki:

"Frank Sinatra said you can make a career off of one song. And that's true. Unfortunately, that's not what I ever wanted. I just wanted to make music."

Kind of a rambling post.... it's fun to think about these things when you're chained to a desk.

[oi_pride]

i know the feeling. the label i'm on told us to release a new album this january, but we have to pay for the recording ourselves. they won't cover the recording or touring costs at all.

[your idol]

MAKE KILLER FUNK..SELL SAMPLES!

[bassclef04]

man! what does this say to the youth who wants to make music their career.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by bassclef04

man! what does this say to the youth who wants to make music their career.

That history demonstrates millionaires are made for prudent planned folks during time of change.

[TortillaChip520]

do you have a link to the original article?

[(b)Assman]

Are you guys saying Lady Gaga isn't raking in millions? You can't expect to make a fortune if you're not on the radar, but you should be content with making minimal wages or at least enough to live off of it you enjoy it. Welcome to the information age. Maybe it's time for artists to be more selective with gigs, or provide a better show. Nobody said acting wasn't part of the gig. You don't have to play in a bar that offers less than you deserve. Prices on alcohol haven't changed and probably aren't going to get any lower :|. Besides do we really want todays "youth" to be focused on the making big bucks in music? That would be the wrong impression obviously and I don't think greatness arrives from such a trivial and objective goal. I would propose that a poorer person would appreciate his 2 bedroom house just as much if not more than any millionaire appreciates his superfluous 20 room mansion. The juice tastes better when you squeeze it yourself, and maybe one day if you can afford a beach side property the pina colada will taste even better. The truth is, I have never purchased a single cd in my entire life. So do I deserve to make a killing on selling cds? Probably not, but I'll tell you it doesn't stop me from driving 100+ miles to see Muse live now and then and shovel out 80+ on a ticket. Maybe they didn't get a single penny from me in record sales but they've made 10x that in ticket sales from me. There will always be room for great performers. Besides, you don't have to sign to a label, there's plenty of people doing well with the whole indie thing.

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by JT Bass

....maybe plastics is the answer.

+1
Work for a major plastics manufacturing firm....it affords the LUXURY of being able to play music.

Music pay = Flat or less since the 80's.
The BIG MONEY for MANY artists was a "trickle down" effect of the monetary bubble being inflated in the 70's~80's and restarted inflating again after laws put in place after 1929 were deleted(google Phil Gramm & derivatives & banking & Act). It's now being inflated with "stimulus". It is a large size now. Hold on....

We're in uncharted territory economically if you look at real stats and indicators even compared to say 1928~1938.

Apologies for the news.

[TortillaChip520]

does this apply to what you make off presales?
Paying taxes and whatnot

[Colonel_Claypoo]

Originally Posted by TortillaChip520

do you have a link to the original article?

here you go: http://www.bryanreesman.com/blog/200...al-and-mayhem/
however, the rest is about NILE and their latest record.

[Mr. Lovejoy]

Eh.

What did you expect was going to happen?


Bad decisions will never lead to a good outcome.