Why the bass community is hurting itself.

[TRichardsbass]

Not really talking about Talkbass. Different and great community.

When I research things I always look to get the best deal possible. When I want a specific item I guage its price range then go and try to get it. I wont overpay, but I wont walk away for a few pennies. If I am getting a good deal I wouldn,t hold out for deal of the day price.

With the Alembic the guy was looking for one and wanted one with my specs. But he believes he can get it in the same condition as mine (NOS) for 60% less then I am asking, which is already over 60% off of list. Which he said was actually a good price. So it made me look at what may be going on.

It is a race to zero.

[mjac28]

I'm not a fan of having two different prices one price over hear and another price over there when I see that I always wait the seller out. I think you hurt yourself by doing that because why in the world would I pay an extra two hundred? and if no one is biting on either listing the buyer has more confidence and will be looking for a deal because he will see you as desparate.

[two fingers]

Dearest OP,

Whether or not a Guild "whatever you have" is far and away better than an American Fender, or a Jazz with Kubiki electronics is head and shoulders better than any other jazz from that period is a matter. I personally don't like active basses. So I would disagree with you right out of the gate. So the "value" of your basses would certainly be lower to me.

Just sayin.....

[RaginRog]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

Customer service is normally where it makes a difference, but most people no longer care about customer service so long as its not horrible. If you buy over the web, you essentially have no customer service anyway.

I know I'm never going to change the world with my thoughts, but maybe I can open the dialog. I mean, I don't want to hear about how little you got in trade for your Subaru and how little value it has when your thought process is deal of the day.

Get used to paying shipping and a restock charge then.

Bass Emporium closed its brick and mortar. He will be web only, but I am sure John will probably be even closing that out.

I have received very good customer service over the phone as well. Many of the points you raised in your original post are true, but it's all evolution. Look at the post office, the teller you talked about, and all the half vacant strip malls (and large malls). The internet has changed the way we live on many levels. Hell, even computer manufacturers are having to shift from towers and laptops to tablets because of the cellular industry.

But I think the sellers market, which has affected the musical instrument industry is greatly a result of the still struggling economy. While we've seen a little growth the past couple of years, I think consumers are holding on to things a little longer because of having less expendible income. It's why you can buy a new Fender American Std for $1250 one day, and only get $750-800 on the next day on the used market. Someone's eventually going to cave and take the cash offer that is significantly less than what they'd hoped for.

[pickles]

I'm curious, what prices are we talking about on the alembic?

Msrp
Street
Your price
Blowout price

I see a lot of people asking what I consider to be silly inflated prices for used basses over the last year. I actually think the market is pretty healthy, we've just go some unrealistic sellers in the mix now. Probably the effect of the bad economy on the seller ... Feeling the need to squeeze a few extra dollars out of the "asset", vs a seller that just wants a different bass and understands there are costs to flipping gear.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

With the Alembic the guy was looking for one and wanted one with my specs. But he believes he can get it in the same condition as mine (NOS) for 60% less then I am asking, which is already over 60% off of list. Which he said was actually a good price. So it made me look at what may be going on.

.

Um, he's a cheapskate?

[lomo]

Apology in advance for internet forum bluntness

Originally Posted by nostatic

Market determines cost. Individuals determine value. There is no "true value." And if Guild Pilots are dirt cheap, then you, as someone who values them, should be happy because you can buy more of them. But if you're selling, then you're sad - but if you're selling then perhaps the value to you is less "true" than you think.

Agree 100%.

Apology in advance for 'net forum bluntness, but in this particular context (sales of bass guitars), the idea that buyers have some sort of moral imperative or goup interest in paying a certain, arbitrary price is, frankly, ridiculous.

[terlewine]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

It is a race to zero.

I like the way the OP looks at things. Seems like he's talking about a bigger picture than bass sales, and what I hear is an approach to buying/selling that says a good sale is one that's good for both buyer and seller. And in a larger view, good for manufacturers and future product development too.

By always focusing on "buy low/sell high," we shoot ourselves in the foot. Major chain stores are probably the most-used example: we like seeing prices get lower and lower, but then one day you only have a small selection of low-quality hardware and the local family-owned hardware store has gone out of business.

It's short-sighted to always want to get the upper hand on every transaction.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by terlewine

Seems like he's talking about a bigger picture than bass sales, and what I hear is an approach to buying/selling that says a good sale is one that's good for both buyer and seller.

True, and this is up to the individual buyer and seller. Some buyers will always be sharks to the point of being distasteful, and some sellers as well, as has likely been since humans began to barter.

[mjac28]

I support local as much as possible but those local family owned stores can stay in business by offering high quality items and focusing on customer service we have two local family owned grocery chains going up against the giant Kroger Food chain they are winning because they have ties to the community and they concentrate on quality and service and they both are adding new stores and doing fine and please call me short-sited because I will always look to get the upper hand on every transaction because if I don't there are millions behind me that will.

[terlewine]

I agree that things haven't changed since forever. The wheel just keeps spinning like it always has.

But there's sort if a "Lord of the Flies" vibe in this view of the marketplace I'm reading here. "I got mine, you get yours." It seems sad.

[terlewine]

BTW: Thanks for an interesting thread. I'm hittin' the sack, but will check back tomorrow.

[Basslice]

I think people spend too much time buying and selling things like these are some type of investments. Buy a bass and make music with it. If you want to make money invest in ExxonMobil. There are millions of instruments out there and to be honest, most are not worth much. The few that have value are collector items.

Why are you selling? You want to get rid of it for some reason. Why is someone buying? They want an investment or a bass to play? Either way there is more stock for sale than buyers so price will slide.

I don't flip basses, but for those that do, deal with it.

[TRichardsbass]

@pickles

List-$5500
My eBay price-$2200 free shipping
My Alembic forum price-$2000 shipped
His price-$800 plus shipping

And mine really is NOS.

Most Alembic Epics sell for around $1600 so I have no idea where he got his idea. And mine is an Excel. Ibthink mine is the only one for sale on the web in the world.

I am just amazed at the way his head works and even more how this is becoming prevelent.

[TRichardsbass]

Correction. LIST FOR THIS BASS IS NOW $6400!

[mjac28]

I know a few people who flip and it's how they make their living I don't have a problem with it. I buy some basses as investments and others that are strictly for playing.

[BawanaRik]

The tales I've been hearing is that buyers are using foreclosure pricing to beat down the market. This isn't fair and I can't help thinking that many of them will be caught out in the cold. The real estate market can change from buyer to seller in a month. It looks like it's doing that.

I had a potential buyer show up to buy a guitar today. First words were "It's one of those" And I said it's one of those listed and pictured in the ad. The one you responded to?

He asked for absolute bottom dollar. I gave him a deal and he again asked for bottom dollar. And I said thanks for coming over.

I'm not worried about having to sell this to feed my family. There people in that situation. I was kinda disappointing in the guy. He would take advantage of someone he thought was in a bind. And saddened that he would attempt to take advantage of me.

Keep track of the people who try to beat you into a beyond killer deal. Keep their emails etc so if they try to buy again you know not to waste your time.


BTW I am in Jersey and I've watched my house value disintegrate.

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

Interesting perspectives.

My rant started with a persons perspective, then had to divert to discuss the effects of deal of the day on everyone then back.

I was never foolish enough to think that this isnt a buyers market. It was his thoughts that he wanted the bass and even agreed it was a very good price, but still wanted to wait for deal of the day mentality.
It wasnt that he thought it was too high or that I was way off.

Either way, yes the internet gives you an idea of what people have paid for something but not necessarily its value. When someone dumps an item, even a house, it devalues everything like it. And I see a lot of that.

My house is worth, according to the bank, $324k in this market. The same appraiser told me good luck getting anything over $250k because there are three foreclosures within a mile that are similar that are listed for $225k. The appraiser even noted that my house is much younger and in imaculate condition compared to the others. But their price negates the value mine is, even aggressively priced. The price of the foreclosures is not a market price. Its a deal of the day price.

Either way, at least there are still builders like Alembic and Fodeta out there.

[mjac28]

He wants to get it for $800.00 and you can either say "yes" or "no" the guy has a set and that's no crime. I think also people are watching shows like Pawn Stars and they want to deal also.

[mjac28]

Way back when the USA was still a baby everyone argued prices it was the norm you never took someones first offer you haggled until you got a price you were happy with.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

Correction. LIST FOR THIS BASS IS NOW $6400!

New Modulus prices have gone up, but they still sell for roughly the same amount used as they always have.