Why couldn't I hear myself last night?

[Evil Undead]

I played a gig last night, and I could barely hear myself at all.

It was a small bar and I used my usual (and only) rig, but a new bass.

Rig is a Promethean P500H head (250W at 8 ohms) and a Markbass 2x10 8 ohm cab. I had the gain at half, EQ off and volume at 2/3. Any higher and it clips.

I was playing my Warwick Corvette standard passive.

Normally I play my Warwick $$ in active mode with all the amp settings the same except the volume on half, and can hear myself fine.

The crowd said they could hear me, sitting nicely in the mix.

So why did I have to have the volume louder on my amp and still couldn't really hear myself? Is it simply because the bass is passive and I'm used to active?

[Evil Undead]

Oh, and will I have more volume on my amp if I get another 2x10 cab?

[jelwood]

If suddenly you can't hear yourself and all other times you could, I would say it was your placement in the room. You turned the volume up to compensate when you went passive and so there really are little variables left other than just bad acoustics. Or maybe you didn't turn the volume up enough to compensate all the way for the gain drop going from active to passive?

[Evil Undead]

Is there a big difference in the volume/gain between active and passive basses?

[bassybill]

It's probably the room as much as anything else - small, acoustically dead rooms seem to kill bass volume.

If you really need to be louder, try increasing volume a little whilst boosting your low mids at the same time, and rolling some of the very bottom end off. This can give the rig a little more headroom before farting, cut some of the mud and avoid overpowering the rest of the band. And stand further away from your amp if you can. Standing right next to your amp means you get to hear the fairly non-directional lows but don't get to hear the higher end that gives your tone the definition you need to be heard clearly. This can give the impression of being not loud enough even when you're blasting out (this is probably why other folks in the room could hear you just fine).

It won't be the fact that the bass is passive that is the main issue as you can just compensate for this by cranking the pre-amp gain on your head a little. But the different tone of this bass may need eq-ing a little differently to come through clearly in some situations, like this one.

Your rig would be very noticeably louder if you added another 210. Alternatively, you'd be surprised how much difference would be made by finding a stand or some other way of angling your 210 back so it's pointing more at your head whilst you play.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

Is there a big difference in the volume/gain between active and passive basses?

My $$ has a noticeable difference in both volume and presence between the passive bypass and active. A lack of presence can certainly make you sound quieter, especially in a mix.

[swspiers]

EQ is your friend...

It really is a great tool

[Howlin' Hanson]

Perhaps you were so close to your amp that all the sound was shooting out under your knees before you could hear it.

That's why our guitarist turns up to 11. He can't hear himself, but the drummer who sits lower certainly can.

[oldrocker]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

Is there a big difference in the volume/gain between active and passive basses?

Yes - most (some) amps have active / passive switchs. This basically just attenuates the gain when in active mode.

If yours does not have an active/passive switch try turning up the gain when using your passive bass.

[oldrocker]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

Oh, and will I have more volume on my amp if I get another 2x10 cab?

Yes - as long as your amp can drive 4 ohms.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by oldrocker

Yes - most (some) amps have active / passive switchs. The basically just attenuate the gain when in active mode.

Try turning up your gain a up for your passive bass.

Actually, I have a cheap Yamaha 4 string passive bass as well as a Bongo 5 (18V active) and Alembic Epic 5 (9V active), and there's not that much difference between their volumes at full up.

[Marty Forrer]

Your eq was off? It's there to use. Try bass flat and mids bumped a little. An upside down smiley face. Mids are what the human ear hears most of. Mids are what made Paul McCartney's and James Jamerson's basslines leap out of our crappy transistor radios. Using the mids is what makes your amp a lot louder without turning up the volume.
I cant believe how many bass players I see still using smiley face eq curves...... and they all sound like a sea of mud.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Marty Forrer

Your eq was off? It's there to use. Try bass flat and mids bumped a little. An upside down smiley face. Mids are what the human ear hears most of. Mids are what made Paul McCartney's and James Jamerson's basslines leap out of our crappy transistor radios. Using the mids is what makes your amp a lot louder without turning up the volume.

And it's how TV commercial producers can get away with making their audio sound a lot louder without it registering as such on a VU meter.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by bassybill

It's probably the room as much as anything else - small, acoustically dead rooms seem to kill bass volume.

+1

I once played a small room with a hollow space under the stage. That stage and room sucked the bass right out of the stage mix. I was playing a Ric through a MB CMD151P (350 watts into a 15). It's normally a drummer slayer, but I couldn't hear myself most of the night no matter how much I fooled with my rig.

Our soundman swore I was sitting in the mix just fine.

[Roscoe East]

Small room acoustics play havoc on low frequencies; due to a phenomenon called "standing waves" there will be various peaks and nulls at different frequencies depending on the dimensions of the room.

If you are standing in a null you will not hear your bass no matter how loud the amp is turned up. And it's small consolation to realize that somewhere in that room there's a spot where you probably can't hear anything but bass, especially if the stage is too small to allow you to find that spot.

[Evil Undead]

Originally Posted by oldrocker

If yours does not have an active/passive switch try turning up the gain when using your passive bass.

That sounds like a good plan, and would avoid me having to get an extra cab. So I keep the volume at the level I have it on with my active bass, and just boost the gain up?

The volume and gain usually sit at about half with the active bass. If I boost the gain, would that push the amp/cab too hard?

[bluewine]

Samething happened to me Friday night, I know it had to do with the extremely small room. The owner thought the house sound was fine.

I am looking into in ear monitors

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Roscoe East

If you are standing in a null you will not hear your bass no matter how loud the amp is turned up. And it's small consolation to realize that somewhere in that room there's a spot where you probably can't hear anything but bass, especially if the stage is too small to allow you to find that spot.

But when standing waves are present, every frequency has different null and maximum points if they exist at all; only specific frequencies and their harmonics will "stand"; only certain notes will generate standing waves. If he didn't hear bass all night it was something else, unless he just played the same note all night.

[millsbass5]

Couldn't hear yourself,huh? Use this.........



GK 2001RB-Don't know what it is? Google it..

[Roscoe East]

Originally Posted by ggunn

But when standing waves are present, every frequency has different null and maximum points if they exist at all; only specific frequencies and their harmonics will "stand"; only certain notes will generate standing waves. If he didn't hear bass all night it was something else, unless he just played the same note all night.

In theory, yes...but in practice, depending on the dimensions of the room, sometimes those "suckouts" can have a bandwidth exceeding half an octave. If one such null is at 50Hz, you can kiss all the money notes on your E string goodbye. Yes, some notes will sound louder than others, some won't sound at all...but in the worst instances, it just seems like all your punch and bottom end is gone

(...until you walk two feet to the left or right)


The old China Club in NYC was notorious for this phenomenon. Really exasperating!