Wire World Cables

[bassinstincts]

Don't know which forum this is supposed to go in...can't find one that mentions cables.

In any event, I just bought a Wire World premium cable and the difference between my Klotz and Monster cables is far from subtle. More transparent and open...AND with more bottom end.

15 feet of Orbit cable with their high end silver-over-copper plugs was about 90 bucks delivered. About twice the price of the Monster cables, but more than worth it in my estimation.

I have not been able to compare WW to other truly high end cables. But I like the fact that their main biz is making cables for use with high end stereos.

I had to overcome a bias that said all instrument cables are alike...even though I have known for years that speaker wire and interconnect cables (not to mention power cords) make a significant difference for a good stereo.

Not trying to flog anything. But WW was a real eye opener for me.

I am going out of town, but look forward to testing the cable for guitar use when I get back.

PS The cable is also very flexible and looks ultra cool as a bonus.

[mjac28]

Free Life time warranty? if not I will pass I'm glad you found a cable you love though.

[bassinstincts]

Not that I know of.

And I have taken advantage of the Monster warranty a couple of times (I have three of their cables). And it is a huge benefit.

The WW terminations seem hyper solid and are clearly of higher quality than Monster. But even if the cable broke every five years and I had to buy a new one, I would still go the higher end route. The sonic difference is that pronounced.

I will also be interested to try it in a few days on my upright.

PS I am running through a very transparent Acoustic Image Ten2 where there is no hum and virtually no noise at all...so I can really hear the A-B difference. Although I just did a comparison through my Thunderfunk/Acme rig and the difference was major except when I rolled off treble and maxed out the bass.

[mjac28]

They sound like a nice cable but at twice the price for me they would have to be twice as good sound wise? I have never heard of them and I went to the site and saw the typical hype everybody else has our's is better because blah,blah... I have never heard the cables so I can't say how they sound? but I'll put them on my radar and see if more people talk about how good they are.

[bassinstincts]

I guess it depends on your perspective, but I don't expect the cable to sound twice as good at twice the price (any more than I expect a Sadowsky to sound twice as good as a Mexican Fender. And I admit what is "better" is very subjective.

I think it makes sense to hear these things first hand so you can determine if you hear a difference and if you find it worth the price premium. Maybe there also are better (there is that word again) sounding cables with no price add-on...for sure, not all cheaper stereo cables sound alike).

Up until now, the Klotz was my favourite instrument cable. Also the most flexible and least likely to get tangled on a gig. But at the time, it was not cheap either.

With all the high end cables I now see advertised (eg. Fishman now distributes Asterope...Planet Waves has new expensive entries...etc.) it looks like cables will be a growth area for gear sellers. Not all of the new stuff will deliver the added goods. So caveat emptor definitely applies.

[smperry]

Originally Posted by bassinstincts

Don't know which forum this is supposed to go in...can't find one that mentions cables.

Yes, it's not mentioned anywhere...but I'm moving to Miscellaneous. Carry on.

[bassinstincts]

Cool. Probably a subject deserving of the lack of interest in this category...

[mjac28]

I think the interest is there and I'm sure more people will start to comment and for me personally I expect a Sadowsky to sound twice as good as one of my Mexican Fenders and it's the reason I haven't purchased an American Standard or Sadowsky after playing both to me they weren't worth the extra cost although both are fine instruments. I'm not a professional musician so that also plays into it and when my monster cable breaks I take it in and get a new one no questions asked?

[tastybasslines]

If anyone thinks that cables can make a noticeable difference in sound, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

In general, when we pay more for something, we expect it to do what it is supposed to, and often think it does, even when it doesn't.

[Gmclachlan]

Originally Posted by tastybasslines

If anyone thinks that cables can make a noticeable difference in sound, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

In general, when we pay more for something, we expect it to do what it is supposed to, and often think it does, even when it doesn't.

Really? You've never A/B'd cables and heard a difference?

[bassinstincts]

I hear a difference. A big one

And i checked and ww cables do have
A lifetime warranty. Other high end cables probably
Do too.

[SoLongJake]

It's no surprise that any competently built cable sounds better than your monster cable. They produce well marketed over priced junk. Cables can't add anything to your sound, they can only take away.

[iamlowsound]

Someone drank the kool aid.

lowsound

[tastybasslines]

As long as the cable is shielded properly, and connections soldered properly, it will do the job. The only thing I can even remotely think of is that a thicker cable will offer less resistance, but most standard copper wire cables can easily handle what simple audio needs.

The idea that manufacturers of instrument cables can somehow control and/or change the sound characteristics of the audio traveling through the wire is just ridiculous.

Now, if you are buying them for their feel, build quality, or some other characteristic, like not tangling, that's a different story, but lets not get carried away with the idea that cable makes such a difference, that 9 out of 10 people could tell.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by bassinstincts

In any event, I just bought a Wire World premium cable and the difference between my Klotz and Monster cables is far from subtle. More transparent and open...AND with more bottom end.

Um, no. There is no way a cable can give you more low frequency content. By subtracting high frequency content a crappy high capacitance cable may make it seem like there is more bass, but a cable is a passive element and cannot add anything to the acoustic spectrum of a signal. The descriptors "transparent" and "open" were invented by marketeers in order to make claims that cannot be disputed because they cannot be measured.

But if you hear a difference it is real for you. Spend your money however you like, but I'm not buying one.

[bassinstincts]

Clearly cables don't ADDD sound. they subtract it..and in different parts of the spectrum

And better cables subtract less...and in the right places..so what comes out of one end sounds more like what went in the other.

No one in the world of sound doubts this (other than ostriches who have never tried a comparison...or people with cloth ears).
Its like saying all amps sound alike. They don't. All it takes is a listen.

But I will defend anyone's right to say the world is flat. I am not trying to sell anyone anything...or even to get you to challenge your prejudices. Just reporting what I (and many others) hear. Cables do make a difference And why wouldn't they?

[Gmclachlan]

Originally Posted by bassinstincts

Clearly cables don't ADDD sound. they subtract it..and in different parts of the spectrum

And better cables subtract less...and in the right places..so what comes out of one end sounds more like what went in the other.

Yes. I work for a production show and we have done tons of cable sampling in controlled conditions over the course of many months. Now we make our own with Mogami and Switchcraft, or Neutrik. We had Monster in some spots, and they were clearly deficient. It was obvious in our monitors and obvious to the front of house engineer when he had no idea cables had been switched, i.e. "what happened to the bass sound?"

[Mark Reccord]

Originally Posted by bassinstincts

I had to overcome a bias that said all instrument cables are alike...even though I have known for years that speaker wire and interconnect cables (not to mention power cords) make a significant difference for a good stereo.

The fact that you believe power cables make sonic differences in hifi gear indicates to me that you didn't really have any expectation bias that all instrument cables were alike. I also have a suspicion that you're trolling as these thread usually end up being epic battles.

Originally Posted by bassinstincts

Clearly cables don't ADDD sound. they subtract it..and in different parts of the spectrum

And better cables subtract less...and in the right places..so what comes out of one end sounds more like what went in the other.

Here’s the thing: It’s not difficult nor does it require expensive cable to realize almost perfect transmission of audio frequency signal in most cases. Low frequency transmission is extremely well understood, and audio is practically DC compared to RF and telecom transmission. The main exception in audio/instrument signals is where you have high impedance passive pickups/controls driving a long cable. In this instance, cable capacitance becomes quite important because it forms a filter with the impedance of the pickups and the more capacitance the cable has the lower in the audio band the filter knee occurs. It has the effect of rolling top end off but with a bit of a peak before the rolloff begins. This is definitely audible given a system with high enough resolution to expose it. In fact with a passive bass, the differences between instrument cables can be quite significant due to this.
Outside of that case, differences between properly made, non-broken cables used in an appropriate way are miniscule and not audible as it’s really easy to transmit these signals without distortion so that what comes out of the cable is identical to what went into it. I currently work as a PCB designer for high speed optical transmission and deal with signals in the GHz range. Things that I deal with every day like skin effect have no bearing in audio because the frequencies are so low that the effects are quite negligible. Audio cable/signal transmission is trivial compared to high frequency stuff and the fact that there’s an industry built around so-called high-end audio cables galls me to no end.

No one in the world of sound doubts this (other than ostriches who have never tried a comparison...or people with cloth ears).
Its like saying all amps sound alike. They don't. All it takes is a listen.

I think you’d find quite a lot of gear designers and other audio professionals who would dispute this statement. Maybe not in the hifi game, but that business is rife with bullcrap and snake oil, especially with respect to high end cables. I say that from experience as I spent a bunch of time in it as a design/test engineer. I’ve compared just about every kind of audio cable from the run of the mill to massively expensive stuff like Crystal Cable, Nordost, Cardas, etc. on a very high resolution system that I had a hand in designing and for my money none of them make any audible difference over a regular, properly built cable. My former boss in that industry claimed he could hear all sorts of differences between cables and fuses and connectors, yet could not hear the difference an out of tolerance resistor made in a critical part of the amplifier that I was able to reliably discern. We also did a lot of blind-ish testing and in those the supposed differences between cables went away in all instances. And I’m not even talking about rigorously applied blind tests.
There are a lot of things that affect sound in an audio system, cables are at the bottom of the list.
That said; if you hear a difference and are satisfied that it’s real and are willing to shell out that kind of cash for cables, more power to you.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by bassinstincts

No one in the world of sound doubts this (other than ostriches who have never tried a comparison...or people with cloth ears).

That is a patently false statement, not to mention condescending. The "world of sound" is chock full of folks with perfectly good ears and plenty of experience with lots of gear who at the very least have their doubts that cables make any appreciable difference in audio as long as they are reasonably well made.

If you hear a difference, it's real for you, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily objectively there. Hearing is very subjective and an A/B test where you know which is which proves nothing.

[iamlowsound]

Well, now we need a double blind test through the same equipment with a RTA and 14kHz-1Hz sine sweep.

lowsound