Your feeling towards bands. The covers and orignals discussion.

[Ian the bassist]

I haven't seen a thread discussing this so I thought I'd put it up to see everyones views. If you walk into just say your local venue and there's a top quality covers band on. Doing all the songs great. Do you sometimes just feel well. Meh. If ya get me. I don't know what it is but tribute/cover bands I just don't have as much respect for as an orignals band. There's nothing wrong with doing a few covers but I mean tribute bands and total covers bands. I'll give 2 examples of it. I see an ok but not great cover band called lixx. I was just thinking the whole time I was watching them 'How does that bassist not know he's out of tune. Why are they in a covers band if they can't even play the songs right'. To be fair I know I sound harsh but literally the bass player had no idea he was out of tune and the songs weren't what I would call 'Nailed'. And another example was an excellent band I seen who did all covers. Did them perfectly. Great show. But I was thinking. These guys are great why don't they do orignals. I don't know about you guys but I've seen some great local orignals bands and covers bands. And I always seem to enjoy the originals more. And generally have more respect for them. But anyway that was some rant. Hope I explained my point well enough haha. What do younguys think of the whole Tribute/covers vs orignals band argument?

[steamthief]

I think the vast majority of audiences out there prefer hearing songs they know. As a practicing musician, your expectations are higher. For the average Joe getting hammered on tequila shots, a passable cover of "Crazy Bitch" makes a better soundtrack.

[essentre]

It's hard to say. Throughout my life I disliked cover bands. I don't enjoy seeing them, I don't enjoy listening to them. Ironically now I play in a cover band. I like the guys, it can be fun and it makes money. I'm still not crazy about it, but it is what it is. I'll still never stop writing original music, and I'd much rather play that. The problem is around here (NJ) there isn't really an original scene anymore and unfortunately people want to see covers.

What drives me crazy though is people who are really into cover bands and the cover bands that take themselves too seriously. I mean come on, how can you be a BAD cover band? You're playing all hit songs!!

[pklima]

Originally Posted by Ian the bassist

These guys are great why don't they do orignals.

Why would anyone want to do originals? I mean, doing covers you can pick the best 50 or so songs from decades or centuries of musical tradition, the best of what thousands of people attempted to write. No matter how good you are as a writer, you'll never do better than that.

I mean that non-humorously and unironically.

[zachoff]

We all like to play, but some folks like to write and some don't. Pretty simple to me, really.

I've been in cover bands and I've been in original bands. I'd be in a tribute band if it was music I loved... Nirvana instantly comes to mind. My problem with being in a cover band is I hated playing radio rock songs. Hell, I hated listening to them so why on earth would I want to play them?

I think it takes a special person to put up with playing music you don't like every day, just as it takes a special person to sit down and write a song. Different strokes.

[JTE]

Why do I play? To have fun expressing myself in a way that doesn't come without music. And I love playing great songs. Therein is the problem. First, if a cover band is playing the music exactly like the record, my thought is "Who cares? I can hear the record anytime I want to!". But if they're making music instead of regurgitating a specific recording then I'm interested.

And the problems with just about every "original" band I've ever seen, heard, or been involved with at the local level are:

A. They ain't that original. Having different lyrics over a 12-bar isn't original.
B. They don't have good songs. The problem with most people who insist on doing "originals" is that they've never spent enough time learning and analyzing enough of other peoples' music. They really don't have a clue why Holland/Dozier/Holland, Lennon/McCartney, Hayes/Cropper, Van Morrison, Lyle Lovett, Rodney Crowell, etc. have good songs. They simply don't know a great song from an unpolished turd, and they think that everything that issues from them is a gem that's worthy of public display.
C. They can't play a gig. I go to a gig to play. I'm there to play for four hours, not for 40 minutes and deal with other band who can't figure out four hours worth of good material.
D. I want the audience to be engaged. Yeah, there's always the ones in the crowd who don't have a clue and actually think "Sweet Home Alabama" is a great song. But that's tempered by the ones who do listen and still enjoy hearing "White Room" or "I Heard It Through The Grapevine" instead of "This Is My Original that sounds just like Golden Earring".
E. It's more fun to play for a lot of people that are enjoying the music than to play for five people who are just waiting for THEIR band to be able to get on stage.
F. I like having decent gear for playing, and being able to change strings when I want to. That means the music has to generate enough money to pay for itself. That means covers. It doesn't mean I gotta play Skynyrd, at least not every night.
G. Most "songwriters" confuse "arrangement" with "composition". They come in with the song all preconceived and the band becomes mere tribute band players, except no one's ever heard the song they're covering.

In 30+ years of gigging I've worked with exactly two people who wrote songs that were as good as the covers we did. And so we did some of their songs. But those two are the rare exceptions, and they both knew the difference between their crap songs and their good ones. They learned the lesson Rodney Crowell says that good songwriters have to learn. You gotta edit your work ruthlessly. Be willing to kill a good idea that's not a great song.

John

[jnuts1]

you'll never do better than that? i'm glad all of those song writers did NOT have the same attidude as you, we would be left with some really boring music if everyone was in a cover band. at what point do you think writers stopped making tunes better than what was before?

[Ian the bassist]

Originally Posted by pklima

Why would anyone want to do originals? I mean, doing covers you can pick the best 50 or so songs from decades or centuries of musical tradition, the best of what thousands of people attempted to write. No matter how good you are as a writer, you'll never do better than that.

I mean that non-humorously and unironically.

Bad way of looking at it. You like the songs more because they were written and a time when music was changing. Yes great songs but great song are still being written today even if the music scene isn't changing in the same way it was back then. What I mean is with a covers band you could learn all the songs in one day. Take another few to tighten it up with the band and there's your set. At least when you write originals it's your heart and soul being poured into it and you know what the song means to you. And I honestly feel my band are a great band that could take on the likes of some of the bigger bands and come out on top. But again thats just my opinion. I'll let you judge for yourself if u'd like.
www.facebook.com/shoctopus
www.shoctopus.com

[P-oddz]

Originally Posted by pklima

Why would anyone want to do originals? I mean, doing covers you can pick the best 50 or so songs from decades or centuries of musical tradition, the best of what thousands of people attempted to write. No matter how good you are as a writer, you'll never do better than that.

I mean that non-humorously and unironically.

The magic of playing music for me IS in the creation. When you gel with a group of other people and create something that has never been done before - that is where true expression (IMO) lies. To me, replaying what has been written before is as interesting as singing karaoke (neither of which I care for personally).

I know I'm opening a HUGE can of worms here, but I personally classify it as Artists and Musicians. Cover band players are Musicians, but not Artists. Originals players, are Artists and Musicians. The creation being the Artist component.

Now, commence with the anger...

[Exploiter8]

Originally Posted by JTE

...if a cover band is playing the music exactly like the record, my thought is "Who cares? I can hear the record anytime I want to!". But if they're making music instead of regurgitating a specific recording then I'm interested.

Yep

X8

[Ian the bassist]

Originally Posted by JTE

Why do I play? To have fun expressing myself in a way that doesn't come without music. And I love playing great songs. Therein is the problem. First, if a cover band is playing the music exactly like the record, my thought is "Who cares? I can hear the record anytime I want to!". But if they're making music instead of regurgitating a specific recording then I'm interested.
John

Exactly my feeling towards covers. My band always try to 'Shoctofy' a cover before we even consider playing it. I can listen to the record whenever I want why pay to see it the exact same way? Excellent point.

[pklima]

Originally Posted by jnuts1

you'll never do better than that? i'm glad all of those song writers did NOT have the same attidude as you, we would be left with some really boring music if everyone was in a cover band. at what point do you think writers stopped making tunes better than what was before?

I will never do better than Cole Porter's best songs. What's the shame in that?

Plenty of other people are interested in playing their own songs, either because they're honestly convinced they're better than anything else ever written by anyone else (this business is full of egos), or because they find it more satisfying to play something that's their own. So, they'll keep writing songs, and that's fine. If they come up with something really great I might cover it sometime.

I'm just not like them.

Originally Posted by Ian the bassist

At least when you write originals it's your heart and soul being poured into it and you know what the song means to you.

A lot of, say, Kevin Fowler's songs really do mean more to me than anything I've ever written.

Originally Posted by P-oddz

I know I'm opening a HUGE can of worms here, but I personally classify it as Artists and Musicians. Cover band players are Musicians, but not Artists. Originals players, are Artists and Musicians. The creation being the Artist component.

I have no problem with that. I don't want to be an Artist. I've done it and found it completely unsatisfying, and a very poor reflection of my real personality. I find being an entertainer much more satisfying.

[zachoff]

Originally Posted by pklima

I have no problem with that. I don't want to be an Artist. I've done it and found it completely unsatisfying, and a very poor reflection of my real personality. I find being an entertainer much more satisfying.

...and that's cool. The act of playing is more important to you than the music you're playing. I'm the other way around. There's not a snowball's chance in hell I'm going to play a Bush or Incubus or Godsmack or [insert radio rock band] song ever again.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by P-oddz

I know I'm opening a HUGE can of worms here, but I personally classify it as Artists and Musicians. Cover band players are Musicians, but not Artists. Originals players, are Artists and Musicians. The creation being the Artist component.

What was John Coltrane when he was playing "My Favorite Things"?

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by pklima

No matter how good you are as a writer, you'll never do better than that.

I mean that non-humorously and unironically.

No matter how good a bass player I become, I will never be as good as <insert name here>. Which is true. I can play, but I don't have the special combination of talent, practice/work habits, dedication to music, and time to be one of the top players in the world. Probably not even in my town.

So why play?
Why write songs?

Maybe because you don't have to be the best. Just play good music. Have fun. Maybe touch a few people. Maybe make a few people dance.

Regarding the actual topic - covers vs. originals?
I like good music, and bands that play good music.
That falls in both categories.

We did a FunkFest last week with two great other bands.
One plays only originals.
One plays only covers.
Both rocked the house (as did we - and we play both covers and originals).
And the people there had a great time grooving to all three bands.

I'm going to see Bela Fleck and the Flecktones next month.
As far as I know, they play mostly originals.
But if they do a cover of a song they like, I won't run out of the hall.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Ian the bassist

These guys are great why don't they do originals?

Gee, I wonder...

[shackled]

Almost every band I like plays a cover or two live. What's the harm in it? Yes, I prefer originals, but there's also something special about putting your own twist on a favorite...

[P-oddz]

Originally Posted by Febs

What was John Coltrane when he was playing "My Favorite Things"?

I don't think we're talking about famous Jazz musicians here.

My point was coming from the "party band" standpoint. The "hire for a night of bar entertainment" type performer. And as discussed a post or two earlier, I think either way is fine. I'm not trying to put anyone down here. Sometimes people don't care to create. Sometimes people don't care to replicate.

Different strokes for different folks and so on....

[Ian the bassist]

Originally Posted by pklima

I have no problem with that. I don't want to be an Artist. I've done it and found it completely unsatisfying, and a very poor reflection of my real personality. I find being an entertainer much more satisfying.

Thats fair enough. But you can still be an entertainer with your own music. The audience is there to see a show. They want to see musicians put guitars behind their necks, Play with their teeth, put ur hand over the neck instead of under, shread off aquick bass solo to introduce a song. I find covers bands just say 'I know u know this next one. It's by a band called #insert band#'. My band did our album launch and we really went out for it. Got fire jugglers, freakshow, belly dancers. And we even got the bely dancers to split the crowd to bring us to the stage. And we played 2 covers and that was it. But we still entertained had everyone singing our songs. If I was in a cover band I could not sell it the way I do now. I just wouldn't be interested. Again this is just my opinion and you are completly entitled to yours I just wanted to throw some things out there.

[s_mcsleazy]

honistly ive dont both. the problem is if you do entirely covers people say "when you doing own material" and the problem is with own materal is people say "dude why cant you play this insert name here_____________________ song"

i find though at a small gig you get more respect from promoters and other bands than if you were to do covers