Your sound out front? Does YOUR sound translate to the crowd?

88persuader · #1 10-01-2007, 09:50 PM

There have been a lot of threads about sound. Currently a hot thread is about Precision basses pros and cons. Some threads are compairing cheap and expensive basses. My question is about opinions and sound. The question is do you think the subtle difference in sound that you hear from one bass or pickup on stage makes any difference out front to the audience? Can the crowd tell the difference between your P bass with the stock pickup and your P bass with the hot rod pickup and your J bass and your Alembic and your Modulus. Do you think it translates to the crowd?

My opinion and experience says it doesn't. OUR sound translates on recordings IF we work with the sound tech and make sure we get OUR sound but for the most part the bass sound in the front end will be determined by the equipment you have and the soundman's ear.

What do you think?

I thought I should drive home that I'm talking about what the SOUNDMAN does to our sound out front ... not what WE hear through our amps.

Intrepid · #2 10-01-2007, 09:58 PM

Probably not, but I damn sure notice.

alfredpunkjazz · #3 10-01-2007, 10:00 PM

I have seen people notice the difference between my Stingray5 (steel and nickel strings), Jazz bass (nickel strings), and precision bass(flat nicklel strings)... Of course, they don't go like "wooooooow", but they can tell. Plus, a little tweak on the amp (or whatever translates your sound to the general mix or PA) takes out the character of each bass, and what you are using it for. I like to slap a lot on my jazz bass, play hard fast lines on my Stingray, and let the bass line breath with my precision... I guess what you hear vanish if you do exactly the same on each bass... But that's just IMHO.

88persuader · #4 10-01-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfredpunkjazz

I have seen people notice the difference between my Stingray5 (steel and nickel strings), Jazz bass (nickel strings), and precision bass(flat nicklel strings)... Of course, they don't go like "wooooooow", but they can tell. Plus, a little tweak on the amp (or whatever translates your sound to the general mix or PA) takes out the character of each bass, and what you are using it for. I like to slap a lot on my jazz bass, play hard fast lines on my Stingray, and let the bass line breath with my precision... I guess what you hear vanish if you do exactly the same on each bass... But that's just IMHO.

This is all about opinion Alfred!

Kwesi · #5 10-01-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88persuader

There have been a lot of threads about sound. Currently a hot thread is about Precision basses pros and cons. Some threads are compairing cheap and expensive basses. My question is about opinions and sound. The question is do you think the subtle difference in sound that you hear from one bass or pickup on stage makes any difference out front to the audience? Can the crowd tell the difference between your P bass with the stock pickup and your P bass with the mot rod pickup and your J bass and your Alembic and your Modulus. Do you think it translates to the crowd?

My opinion and experience says it doesn't. OUR sound translates on recordings IF we worh with the sound tech and make sure we get OUR sound but for the most part the bass sound in the front end will be determined by the equipment you have and the soundman's ear.

What do you think?

Really depends on what kinds of basses are being compared and the music in question. For example if your playing, say some My Chemical Romance, even a trained musician wouldn't really care fore the difference between a Fender P or J or an Ibanez or something. If you're laying some of Greg Howe's stuff for example between a P and a Fodera a 3 year could tell the difference. I guess what i trying to say is that the prominence of the sound of a bass is really based on its role in the music being played. In most metal the bass is there for heavyness (holdin it down). for punk its there for substance (still holdin it down). in funk its holdin it down but out in front linking the rhythm section with the rest of the band. and in, say, fusion its role is generally much more out in front and i guess more melodic (relative to the song) because in fusion the musicians are on equal footing as are their roles in the music. So yea...its all in the music^^

88persuader · #6 10-01-2007, 10:05 PM

BTW ... this question is about what the "soundman" does to your sound ... not what WE do to it and hear on stage.

ElDunco · #7 10-01-2007, 10:07 PM

Not so much as with subtle changes with a bass, such as pick ups. Unless what in there really sucks. But the difference between my 'vette on stage and the amp settings I used compared to my Ibanez RD is majorly different, and I've gotten a few comments on it as well. However having a PA and soundman that are damn good helps aswell. Or just run a big cab, I can compete with a 10,000 watts of PA pretty easily. Makes me wonder what kind of hell you all with 500+ watts give your soundmen lol.

88persuader · #8 10-01-2007, 10:32 PM

Well I run two totally different "amp" set ups. On big stages and big clubs I run my Ampeg SVT PRO-5 head with a 4X10 cab pushing 1350WTS and in small rooms I run "ampless" using a Line6 BassPosXT as a simulated amp. Ironically enough when I run in small clubs and go direct using the pod "I'M" the soundman and set up my Mackie sound system (including powerd sub) more or less behind and to the side of me. When I run the sound myself MY sound comes through because i make sure it does. But when I run my big rig and use a soundman he makes the instruments sound the way HE thinks they should sound and often MY sound out front is not MY sound. Doesn't matter what bass I use and really doesn't matter about subtle things like a different pickup or pre-amp.

88persuader · #9 10-01-2007, 11:39 PM

Well so far I see two things ... this isn't a very hot thread

and so far the majority think the delicate nuances, things like different basses and pickups translates true through the front end sound system. Have you guys ever walked out front with a wireless when someone else is running sound for you??

All I can say is I wished I felt like you ... I really do. I've worked with probably 100 soundman during my life and most have had their own definite idea how the band should sound ... including bass tone. If i played a bass with a lot of high end they'd dampen it to sound like what they want to hear. If i play a bass with a lot of lows they kill the lows and add mids. Regardless of my stage tone the soundmen manipulated the sound to get what THEY think a band and bass should sound like. Sooooo if i had 5 Precisions with different woods or pickups and "I" could hear the delicate differences in each bass that difference would be lost out front. That's my experience ... I wish it weren't! I buy different basses for ME to make Me happy but I don't think it would make any difference to the crowd if i played a Mexican Precision or an Alembic Series ll. Maybe it would if I were a recording artist with an amazing sound man who trys to replicate my studio sound but not on the local bar band level.

gweimer · #10 10-01-2007, 11:40 PM

I stand out in front of the stage when I set my sound. Either that, or I have someone else play it. I haven't heard much of anything I've played in over 20 years because I set my amp for the room, and not me. I've got a sound sample of a live tape from a long time ago. It's a mic/board tape in a large room. Go to my bandmix link and play "Back In My Arms Again"

http://www.bandmix.com/garyweimer

88persuader · #11 10-02-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gweimer

I stand out in front of the stage when I set my sound. Either that, or I have someone else play it. I haven't heard much of anything I've played in over 20 years because I set my amp for the room, and not me. I've got a sound sample of a live tape from a long time ago. It's a mic/board tape in a large room. Go to my bandmix link and play "Back In My Arms Again"

http://www.bandmix.com/garyweimer

So you get YOUR sound OUT FRONT rather then on stage ... interesting. Does your band/you run the sound from stage or do you tell the sound man how to make you sound when you're out front?

fullrangebass · #12 10-02-2007, 08:06 AM

IMHO it translates BUT.......

100 people will hear the difference, 10 will realize, one will pay attention to that. The question is: do the 100 people have a good time? That's what REALLY counts.

The fact that I've been commented and appraised on the tone and the versatility of the sound of my basses makes ME (and mainly me) feel better and happy, but we are playing FOR the audience with respect to ourselves and our needs and desires

MikeBass · #13 10-02-2007, 08:08 AM

You can't really answer a question like this one.

It depends on the room, and sometimes "your sound" may be the thing that has to be changed- sometimes dramaticly- to get the overall band to sound right.

I work with some awesome sound guys. But they'll be the first ones to make a huge change in my sound to get things to work correctly.

I also run post EQ and also a pre EQ signal to the board most of the time. And they can blend or choose which is better.
But FWIW, I run my amp damn near flat anyways.

Moe Monsarrat · #14 10-02-2007, 08:15 AM

I have a great sound guy. That being said, sometimes we don't get to use him. I typically use a Radial Bassbone DI. My Elrick 5 through the Bassbone channel #1 using the #1 preset EQ setting is dubwise murder. All the sound guy has to do is ride the volume most of the time.

gweimer · #15 10-02-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88persuader

So you get YOUR sound OUT FRONT rather then on stage ... interesting. Does your band/you run the sound from stage or do you tell the sound man how to make you sound when you're out front?

In my early years, we had a sound man. I had a 50' cord. We worked together, but I sound checked from in front of the stage, and adjusted from there. In the past few years, it's been small rooms, and I've been the sound man in some cases. Same basic idea, though. Get out in front of the band to get a better idea of what the room will do with the sound. There are a couple simple things to remember:
1. The really low freqs don't fully develop for 15-20 feet or more. The room ambience works those better than your amp. Suppress your eq at 100 hz or lower.
2. Given a set balance of tone, if you want more low end, bring up the volume, not the bass.

In the link I gave, my rig was an Acoustic 360 and a Fender Bassman w/2x15 cab. The Acoustic did the bulk of the work, and we mic'd the Bassman for clarity.

dvh · #16 10-02-2007, 08:29 AM

Agree with the OP. If your bass is going through a PA, GENERALLY, you might just as well play that MIM P and leave the boutique at home (in terms of FOH sound - your boutique will still feel better and sound better to you on stage).

For me, "my sound" alone is fairly close to the typical FOH set-up.

spade2you · #17 10-02-2007, 08:42 AM

Just get a P bass and you can solve everything.

I haven't been in a band that has gotten off the ground and done shows in years, but the last time I had a lot of positive responses. The monitors were screwed up, but people enjoyed the sounds from my fretless Cirrus and Ampeg rig.

peterpalmieri · #18 10-02-2007, 12:20 PM

I tend to agree with the OP for gigs where there is a substantial FOH. When you say the crowd, I don't think they notice allot of what's going on.

Kwesi also makes a good point depending on the role the bass plays in the music can make a big difference.

Earwigger · #19 10-02-2007, 12:26 PM

My current band has no guitars, so people can hear my bass and it's tone quite well now. If there's Marshalls in the mix though, forget it.

yourlord · #20 10-02-2007, 12:36 PM

I just make sure my rig is big enough that if the sound guy sucks I can just override the PA =D