Acoustic/Electric/Tradition/Progression Argument. What Is Yours?

[bassist1962]

I am prepared to get a slew of callous remarks here, but there have been a few things on my mind for the last several weeks.

1) DB v ABG - There is definetly a difference in these two instruments. But to say that BG is not a real bass, is like telling an electic guitarist he doesn't play a real guitar. I hear that ABG is not loud enough, then why do run a DB thru an amp?

2) DB v EUB- Same argument here. If we are talking about tradition then what is that tradition? Is the tradition vertical, or is it acoustic? It seems to me that if your personal tradition is acoustic then you would look at the EUB an inferior instrument, and opt more for an ABG.

3) EUB v EBG - I own a fretless BG and have heard samples of EUB's, and they sound just like my fretless. There have been the rare occassion that I have heard an EUB that actually sounds like a DB. If we are running a DB thru an pickup and amp, then it becomes electric.

4) DB v EBG - This argument has been around since the 50's.
When Charlie Christian put a pickup on his guitar in order to be heard, it became a completely different instrument, and nobody expects and electric guitar to sound like an acoustic, and vice versa. However, it seems as if everybody expects the EBG to sound like a DB. I cannot believe the number of Rock bands I have played in that have this unrealistic expectation.

In my studies over the last year or so, I have found that the first music that accepted a totally elcetric approach (including the BG) was Country music, followed closely by Blues. It's strange to me that we still classify Country as acoustic music, yet Rock and Roll did not go totally electric til the mid 60's. The lines have blurred. Acoustic used to mean DB, electric meant BG. Now it is more of a vertical versus horizontal.

[Marc Piane]

For me it is simple and a matter of personal taste.

I consider myself a "purist" but this is only in the context of jazz. I consider Stanley Clarke (on eb), Geddy Lee, Les Claypool, Flea, Bootsy, Tony Levin, etc to be influenes. I listen to a fair amount of music that has EB players.

I'm not a fan of EB in jazz.

I just prefer the sound of DB in certain contexts and one of them being the music that I play.

[Marcus Johnson]

Me too.

[CamMcIntyre]

I agree with the 2 guys above me.

With all the comparisons above-for me it comes down to what sound fits the style and context.

[bassist1962]

Originally Posted by fingers

For me it is simple and a matter of personal taste.

I consider myself a "purist" but this is only in the context of jazz. I consider Stanley Clarke (on eb), Geddy Lee, Les Claypool, Flea, Bootsy, Tony Levin, etc to be influenes. I listen to a fair amount of music that has EB players.

I'm not a fan of EB in jazz.

I just prefer the sound of DB in certain contexts and one of them being the music that I play.

Do you use any EB influence on DB, and/or vice versa?

I didn't mean to sound as if I was ranting in the OP, it's just that I feel you have to start somewhere, but then find your own voice. I have kind of grown tired of the whole 'What kind of ---- should I use for ---- music' kind of questions. What did the influences you have do? They may have asked the starter questions, then did they continue to immitate, or did they go their own road? Anyway, I guess my ear is different, or at least my thinking.

[ctxbass]

They are different instruments with unique sounds, but the performer and the application make more difference.
I don't know if it is still there, but there was footage on utube of Milt Hinton playing a baby bass. It still sounded like Milt Hinton.

I think a Fender P bass with high action and big flatwound strings has more of an old school double bass sound than does a double bass with low action and amplified with a pickup.

[bassist1962]

There are sounds that I hear, and am suprised to find out what I am listening to. I had been listening to an album for a few years that had Danny Thompson on bass, and only found out that it was a DB I was listening to through this site. It got me started on Spiro strings though, because I got tired of the ' We want you BG to sound like an upright, because you have way to much twang in your sound' type of attitude from people I played for. Now all I have to do is bring in the DB, play a few notes, and ask what they have to say about it now. There is too much twang in my sound compared to what? Not to be a smart a$$, but just to give a different perspective.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by bassist1962

I am prepared to get a slew of callous remarks here, but there have been a few things on my mind for the last several weeks.

1) DB v ABG - There is definitely a difference in these two instruments. But to say that BG is not a real bass, is like telling an electric guitarist he doesn't play a real guitar. I hear that ABG is not loud enough, then why do run a DB thru an amp?

1) DB v ABG? .. Ever see a guy in a Bass section at a Symphony concert playing an ABG? Ever see a Jazz player try playing an ABG? It's not just about volume. One is an acoustic Guitar with a longer neck and Bass strings/tuning. The other is a Double Bass. Completely different construction, completely different sound, completely different instrument. In common? Same tuning! Both can be played with or without amplification. The ABG has a small box and a small sound. Needs an amp usually especially for the lower notes.

2) DB v EUB- Same argument here. If we are talking about tradition then what is that tradition? Is the tradition vertical, or is it acoustic? It seems to me that if your personal tradition is acoustic then you would look at the EUB an inferior instrument, and opt more for an ABG.

2) DB v EUB? .. Ok, getting slightly closer here. Ever see a guy in a Bass section at a Symphony concert playing an EUB? These were mainly developed for travel and also for added amplification. You can't make the DB as loud on stage without getting feedback because of the hollowed acoustic body as apposed to what little slab you can find other then the neck of the EUB. When ever I hear an EUB on the radio I just hate the over bearing low end. It's just not natural. Also, it sounds too electric. Sort of a fretless BG standing up with a fatter neck. I just don't like how they sound. For many who travel it's a necessary evil and a justifiable trade off for the real thing.

3) EUB v EBG - I own a fretless BG and have heard samples of EUB's, and they sound just like my fretless. There have been the rare occasion that I have heard an EUB that actually sounds like a DB. If we are running a DB thru an pickup and amp, then it becomes electric.

3) EUB v EBG? .. Yes, they can at times sound similar but it can also be in the fingers. Guys who play the DB will naturally work to get that type of sound to match what they are hearing in their head. Bob Cranshaw who switched decades ago to BG because of back problems gets a better DB 'feel' live than many DB players can. He really swings. A DB with a pickup is amplified, not electric. It still has a huge box putting out sound. One night I brought my old Italian Cornerless Bass to a Jazz gig because I had been to a special ceremony with the Bass earlier and could not bring a second Bass for the Gig after the affair. I put a microphone in foam in the middle of the bridge touching the top, old school. The amp was soft due to feed back problems. This Bass is extremely deep. The G string is as fat sounding as most Es are. 20-30 feet away the Bass sounded louder than it did close up as the pianist commented he couldn't hear me, Everyone else thought I was quite loud. This is a Bass that gets louder as you go further away. Was I electric because I was mic'd? No, I was amplified!

4) DB v EBG - This argument has been around since the 50's.
When Charlie Christian put a pickup on his guitar in order to be heard, it became a completely different instrument, and nobody expects and electric guitar to sound like an acoustic, and vice versa. However, it seems as if everybody expects the EBG to sound like a DB. I cannot believe the number of Rock bands I have played in that have this unrealistic expectation.

4) DB v EBG? .. They are tuned the same! Mainly different uses but if you can, pick up some old records (wax LPs) of Ramsey Lewis with either Eldee Young or Cleveland Eaton on Bass. They got the funk and they play DB. Also, Horace Silver with Larry Ridley on Bass. Great intonation and funky too but mainly playing the written bass line. I know, I was on that gig in 1969 for a short while. I have used my DBs in the past for R&B type recordings in place of a BG because I could pull it off. Some bass parts however are just meant for the BG, period. Oh and, Ever see a guy in a Bass section at a Symphony concert playing an EBG? Sorry, couldn't resist.

In my studies over the last year or so, I have found that the first music that accepted a totally electric approach (including the BG) was Country music, followed closely by Blues. It's strange to me that we still classify Country as acoustic music, yet Rock and Roll did not go totally electric til the mid 60's. The lines have blurred. Acoustic used to mean DB, electric meant BG. Now it is more of a vertical versus horizontal.

On the usage, Monk Montgomery played a Fender Precision BG in the 1950's with Lionel Hampton before most of the Country guys dropped their Uprights! I think the BG just creeped in where ever it could and many of the first BG players were actually Guitar players sometimes doubling the DB part (using a pick of course) on many Pop Recordings.

[Phil Rowan]

Originally Posted by bassist1962

Do you use any EB influence on DB, and/or vice versa?

Yes. For example, James Jamerson.

[damonsmith]

I have a really, really loud bass, so I like to play acoustic and most reasonable situations I can get by totally acoustic or use a mic. I have an EUB for travel and loud gigs. I find it useful. We are in an age where an EUB with the right strings, technique and amp can aproximate an amplified upright, or at least give it's own version of a warm, woody and percussive tone. Extended range is nice trade off as well, the high C and F and low B strings come in handy for the free music I play.

My EUB is nothing like BG.
I think the airlines are going to force us to see a lot more of them.

[bassist1962]

Just for the record here:

I am a progressive traditionalist. Meaning that I use a Fender through an Ampeg for BG.

I would prefer to play a DB rather than an ABG or EBG or EUB in an acoustic setting.

I believe music is an entity all its own, constantly changing. I have nothing against tradition or progression, and I guess this query started when I saw an ad for the Barker Vertical Bass. I think that that is nothing more than a BG on a stick. Tom Pettersen of Cheap Trick did this with his Hamer when they did Don't Be Cruel. I thought it was ridiculous then, and even more so now. I think Sting brought the EUB (if not the DB) to the fore in rock music with a few tracks from the Police. I thought that was more like it. That was Leo Fender or Everett Hull's intention. A smaller, louder more portable instrument for bass players.

Ken - yes, actually I have seen a symphony with EBG. Don't remember who, but I thought it odd, but cooly progressive. And you still can't bow the thing!

My personal feeling is that there are things I still can't do on BG, and I know that I will probably never be able to do them on DB, but that doesn't stop me from attempting to play Mingus or Thompson on BG, or Geddy Lee or Chris Squire on DB. As I posted earlier, what did the greats do? Did they stress over gear, or did they just play what was presented to them?