Am I alone in this thinking?

[drurb]

Wow! So many thoughtful and wonderful replies. Maybe jazz just isn't your thing. If that's true right now, I suggest that you focus on the music you love. If that's classical-- fine. That being said, I think you have revealed a somewhat narrow view of the art of jazz and how you, as a bass player, can find, develop, and use your individual voice. As Phil said, "The bass player's role in Jazz is exactly what he makes it."

Just a metronome? No arco? To that I would reply:

Slam Stewart

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

*shrug* Sorry if I was rude, but the comments on your part about bassists being replaced by metronomes and how all jazz solos are big wankfests are also pretty flippant.

That said, it sounds like an exposure thing -- you just don't dig a lot of older jazz. More contemporary stuff is probably up your alley -- you could do with some new Wayne Shorter (Beyond The Sound Barrier or Footprints Live!) or pretty much anything else featuring John Pattitucci + Brian Blade. Also check out Dave Holland's quintet, Kurt Rosenwinkel's bands, Greg Osby (mixes classical and jazz frequently) and Brad Mehldau's trio with Jeff Ballard and Larry Grendadier.

All of the above players are pretty much on the cutting edge of jazz today. There isn't much walking, and I don't know how anyone could listen to Wayne Shorter or hear Brad Mehldau and not be moved.

- I am totally unmoved by Meldau but that is another thread (that actually exists). Holland is great but has backed pretty far back from the edge.
Shorter's recent quartet is another thing. That is cutting edge jazz. Pattitucci is anything but boring, his arco is incredible and the whole band works together in a wholly unpredictable way.
There is a ton of music that uses all kinds of colors and concepts starting with Braxton, the AACM and Cecil Taylor and well beyond, still I would stress that you research the fine musicians I mentioned and others who artfully do what your orginal post complained of.

[mje]

If a bass player doesn't like the role he's been put in, maybe he's playing with people who don't listen to each other.

[Jeff Guevin]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

- I am totally unmoved by Meldau

-1

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Shorter's recent quartet is another thing. That is cutting edge jazz. Pattitucci is anything but boring, his arco is incredible and the whole band works together in a wholly unpredictable way.

++1!

[Bruce Lindfield]

I saw Wayne's latest quartet in my home town and John Patitucci's arco playing was about the only amplified arco I have really liked - truly awesome!

[Sam Sherry]

Q. Am I alone in this thinking?
A. No. To cite just a few examples:

Scott LaFaro broke jazz bass-playing out of the Quarter-Note Box in 1961 with his playing on Bill Evans' Sunday At the Village Vanguard.

Dave Holland made beautiful jazz that left all that behind on his 1972 recording, Conference of the Birds. He's made some amazing recordings since then, too.

Drew Gress plays some outrageously musical stuff, far from The Box, on Ravi Coltrane's 2005 piece, In Flux.

But all those guys can walk quarters inside the box like crazy too. They do what is musical in the particular moment they're in. With that in mind, it might be that you're ready to dig jazz but need to stretch your ears and your contexts a bit (as others have noted more eloquently). And it's worth the effort, because learning to improvise will only help expand your ability to play orchestra music with fresh, musical ears.

(And speaking of eloquent -- wow, Phil! Well said! Words to live by!)

Ultimately though, if you really are frustrated holding down the bottom then the bass might not be the right instrument for you. Because while there are an infinite number of ways to play the bass, that is often what bassists do.

Have fun. Report back in a few.

[oliebrice]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Scott LaFaro broke jazz bass-playing out of the Quarter-Note Box

among others. I love LaFaro's playing, but I often think he is credited too individually with a broader movement - check out contemporary playing by Steve Swallow or Gary Peacock playing with Paul Bley for example. (I'm not suggesting you don't know of these players, Sam, just that your comment brought the point to my mind).
Sorry for being off-topic, but I think this is symptomatic of a general tendency to have 'celebraties' in jazz, or a small number of hugely famous geniuses rather than a community progressing the music. hence everyone in the world has heard of Coltrane, but almost no-one of John Gilmore, Dewey Redman, Marion Brown etc

[Damon Rondeau]

There's been a lot of good talk here about listening and open-mindedness and maturity and stuff. But don't forget your heart. If something doesn't move you, it doesn't move you. That doesn't mean walk away and never think about it again. That won't make you mature and well-rounded. I knew from a very early age that swinging jazz music rocked my socks -- it was Glenn Miller or something sorta hokey like that, I can still remember the radio and the breakfast table I was sitting at. I might have been 6 years old or so. The Beatles made me feel the same way at the time. Forty years later it still feels the same way when music excites me or moves me. That's what I'm looking to feed in myself and -- humbly -- to try and provide for other folks.

So: don't write jazz off too early. It's the ocean. But don't neglect to play music you love.

[Michael Case]

I think the advice given here is really good, but if you don't like playing jazz it's fine. If you find playing a style of music unsatisfying then don't play it.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by oliebrice

among others. I love LaFaro's playing, but I often think he is credited too individually with a broader movement - check out contemporary playing by Steve Swallow or Gary Peacock playing with Paul Bley for example.

-I used to feel that more strongly, technically he is just one of the first post-mingus bassists, Mingus also did most of what was credited with in smaller portions.

A few weeks ago A friend who basically produced the 3 cd box of the Village vangaurd stuff remastered directly from the the 2 track sent it to me.
I feel he was a real innovator, where Peacock and Swallow were really freeing things up. LaFaro was really pushing the "inside" right to the edge.

I think that trio really opened up a lot without going "out".
You can really hear it better on the new box set.

[oliebrice]

Whats on the box-set that isn't on either Sunday at the Village Vanguard or Waltz for Debbie?
Just for the record, the bass playing on those albums is among my all-time favourite.
Fair point that LaFaro was pushing the boundries within a 'straighter' context than the examples I gave.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by oliebrice

Whats on the box-set that isn't on either Sunday at the Village Vanguard or Waltz for Debbie?
Just for the record, the bass playing on those albums is among my all-time favourite.
Fair point that LaFaro was pushing the boundries within a 'straighter' context than the examples I gave.

I think the box set has everything. I had a few lps before, I normally won't listen to "jazz" on cd, only LP. But this was free.
I should say that Awallow and Peacock are more my thing but I did finnaly see the light with this trio. They were such innovators.
Steve Lacy often quoted Ezra Pound who said, "Make it New". I think they did.