big band gig

[Wil Davis]

I occasionally sub with a big-band (mostly for rehearsals), and the thing I've noticed more than anything is the director is very, very focussed, and moves very quickly from one piece to the next (and not necessarily starting at the top). He requires full attention from everybody (obvious, one might think… yeah! dream on…) so the point made by Eric is well noted. Sounds nit-picking and tedious, but he covers a helluva lot of ground in a two-hour rehearsal. Another point is as I'm only a sub, I don't get to take the music home in between rehearsals, so it does help to be able to read. I've used my (old) AI Contra, and was complimented on the sound by many members of the band (perhaps they were just being sympathetic ) - as to power, I think I had it turned up about half-way (i.e. 5½) which was quite loud enough for a fairly live room (seating about 200 people). Playing in a big-band is great fun, but I don't know if I'd want to do it all the time.

Hope this helps -

- Wil

[farmerdude]

...the hardest part of playing big band DB is when they call out 3 or 4 numbers...you only have one hand available and about 20 seconds till the next downbeat.

[olivier]

Originally Posted by lermgalieu

So I got a call to rehearse and maybe play some gigs with a big band. snip....

Hey Larry, will you give us an account of your impressions during the first reheasal ?

[NJL]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I use a 750 watt amp and 2 12's with my big band - and they're constantly telling me to turn up. I'm so freaking sick of trumpet players! I tell them to listen louder, to no avail. All brass players want to do is wail.... grrr

[lermgalieu]

Hey Larry, will you give us an account of your impressions during the first reheasal ?

Sure will - its on Monday. Now they want me to bring my electric bass too...I'd rather not, but what the heck. My teacher said I can always retune if I get lost ;-) just kidding! But he did relay an interesting story about how he was visiting a high school band and the leader was complaining about his rhythm section. So Dan (my teacher) pointed out that he had the drummer at the top and the bass player way far away from him and commented that even a pro would have trouble 'locking in' in that scenario. Sure enough, they moved everything around and they sounded great by the end of rehersal. Just goes to show you that sometimes (lots of times) the thing that will trip you up isn't the music, but simple physical or logistic things.

[lermgalieu]

ok - here we go - the rehearsal was last night.

I'd have to say it was easily the most difficult (i.e. out of my box) musical thing I've done so far - a great learning experience. I realize now in hindsight that my hunches were correct - I should have hunted down the book in advance. But I kinda didn't do that purposefully - to really challenge myself.

In general, I could follow the charts, with the exception of one particular bebop style tune. The leader kept stopping and saying "let's start at G" when their G was my "D". Finally I had him look at my chart and he patted me on my back and said "good luck". I should have noticed it was simply AABA, but the quick tempo and tough chords combined with the bad chart threw me into a bit of a panic. So I stopped

Other than that, there was this samba (new to everyone) and the leader kept asking me why I wasn't playing a samba feel. My response was "the chords are going by too fast for a samba feel" and lo and behold after 3 tries the leader realized we were playing it twice as fast as we should.

The drummer was VERY helpful (he was a sub too) by telling me what bar were on a couple of times. I wish I could have seen the pianist's left hand - I will need to remember that in the future. A couple of times I was able to come back on by just listening for cues and what not, but its kind of hard sometimes to tell when brass hits and such are coming up - this is where the pianist would have come in handy, and he was banging the chords for me, but I wasn't very close to him and I couldn't always find where we were compared to the chart - a combination of not being able to fully absorb the framework of the song quickly to know what he was playing/where it was and the lack of experience reading charts. A couple of tunes I made it through no problem, but I found several things that I need to really work on

- bop - I wasn't able to hang at the speed we played "Zoot". And I don't even think it was THAT fast. (maybe 180-190bpm).

- Reading - I was able to read quarter notes and vamp style basslines easily enough, but some of the note for note melodic lines and segues were simply too much for me. I think if I had the charts in advance I would have had this stuff together.

- Chart Layout - I think I couldn't have been prepared for this aspect, I just need more practice in a sheet music band environment to be able to catch everything on the first runthrough

Overall, I enjoyed the hell out of it, even though it seemed *like* hell at times. There were lots of really talented guys/gals there, and there was a singer for a tune too, which was nice. Afterwards one of the trumpet players came up to me and asked me to play with another big band (though it falls on my other rehearsal night and I can't), and complimented me on my sound (confidence re-booster). The drummer was very encouraging, as was everyone I talked to - although the bandleader was a bit grumpy I believe. oh well, if I get asked back I do, if I don't I am sure something else will come up. I'm just glad I did it. I have an offer to do bass in a orchestra pit at a musical of "Singin' in the Rain" as well, but I think it falls on the nights of some gigs with my other band. I think that would be extremely enjoyable to do as well.

Ok, I gotta do some work.

OH Edit: My clarus and EA Wizzy 12 was plenty loud and sounded great. They told me to bring my electric bass and then I didn't use it, otherwise it would have been pretty painless gear-wise.

[Damon Rondeau]

Lermie,

This is a great post and a great thread. We're not all citizens out in the high country around here. Some of us pilgrims have only heard about it. Your honest and detailed review of your experience reminds me of some of my own forays -- recent and historic -- into the jazz world. This is what real world learning looks and feels like...

[Mike Crumpton]

Originally Posted by lermgalieu

I couldn't always find where we were compared to the chart - a combination of not being able to fully absorb the framework of the song quickly to know what he was playing/where it was and the lack of experience reading charts. A couple of tunes I made it through no problem, but I found several things that I need to really work on

- Chart Layout - I think I couldn't have been prepared for this aspect, I just need more practice in a sheet music band environment to be able to catch everything on the first runthrough

I feel for you and think you probably done good - but could you have been prepared better? Well we all could. From what you say I doubt it though. I never cease to be amazed at the poorly written cruddy bass parts that get chucked at you that give no hint as to what's where. Acres of quarter-notes that make your eyes glaze over - often had written with varying numbers of bars per line.

Personally I think its largely a matter of learning to cope with charts by being chucked in with rehearsals like this as you say. I do have a collection of randon bass parts I have a look at now and then, but once you've got the outline you tend to remember it.

AS Damon says - great post - you got a real nice attitude to it all - good luck to you.

[lermgalieu]

Ah yes, you've been through this. The "eyes glaze over" part really assured me of that. The quarter note lines were all pretty fakeable though as long as you had a general grip on the chords.

As i've said elsewhere, my background is not jazz, but its not really rock. Its odd instrumental rock/jazz, mostly learned by ear, and without any foundation in the standards, or in standard ways of approaching 'jazz' (II/V/I etc). So this has all been quite a revelation and learning experience for me. if I can get the reading and stuff down, I should be able to lay down a nice foundation on this stuff.

[Eric Jackson]

Sounds like you survived your "baptism by fire" quite well- congrats. It only gets better from here.

A lot of folks that post here regularly have mentioned playing with big bands in the past (or present). I don't think I've read a negative post, pretty much everyone seems to think it's a blast. And a lot of us can probably identify with what you've described, and perhaps remember going through some of the same things.

My steady (part-time) gig is with a big band, with the occasional small group job. I have the good fortune to play with a piano player in her '50's, a drummer in his '60's and a guitar player in his '70's, who have all been playing this stuff for decades. When the rhythm section locks up, the whole really is greater than the sum of the parts. It's almost orgasmic. The band leader is a mid-70's trumpet player who spent many years on the road with some of the biggest names in the big band biz. He has a basement full of thousands of charts accumulated over 50+ years. At least half of our rehearsal time is spent playing new charts. For me, it's exciting to have a new chart dropped on my stand. Sometimes they're fresh copies of an old chart with many different sets of hand written notes, sometimes they're brown, crispy, musty-smelling old things. Almost always, the sound that fills the room when we light 'em off is plain magic. Much of the stuff discussed in other threads here regarding swing, theory, line construction, etc, applies. (Not so much the stuff on soloing).

Sorry, I'm babbling. My enthusiasm runneth over.

[lermgalieu]

For me, it's exciting to have a new chart dropped on my stand.

Well they were all new to me!

[lermgalieu]

There were a few instances of low Eb's too, that was fun. Almost as fun as reading double flats on the fly, or when one chart shifted from C major to "the one with five flats" heh. I didn't catch that!

[olivier]

Thanks Larry for this nice account. Bandleaders with big ears are really a plus for this type of setting.

[Eric Jackson]

Originally Posted by lermgalieu

There were a few instances of low Eb's too, that was fun. Almost as fun as reading double flats on the fly, or when one chart shifted from C major to "the one with five flats" heh. I didn't catch that!

Low Eb's- more evidence that some arrangers don't put much thought into the bass part.
I've never understood the reasoning behind double flats either. Just as bad, I've seen charts where the same note is spelled using a sharp and a flat in different places, sometimes within a bar or two (ie, F#/Gb). Lazy copyists.

"The one with five flats"-Db is a pretty common key for '30's era swing tunes. It's a rare chart that doesn't change key a couple times, many of 'em pass through Db or Gb (six flats). There are a few left hand block positions that make playing in Db fairly comfortable with minimal shifts. Many of them apply to Gb and Ab as well. Get these under your left hand and Db's no prob.

Also, if you do it for a while you'll come to recognize phrases and rhythmic figures that appear often. You read the chart in phrases rather than individual notes, like you read language in phrases rather than individual words. You'll also recognize arranger's styles by common phrases (more in horn parts than bass parts), work by guys like Don Costa, Dave Wolpe and Sammy Nestico for example are recognizable just by the bass parts.

[arto alho]

Also, don´t get lost to those parts labeled from A-G or more. Usually there are different backgrounds for solos, but the section is actually the same. Seeing charts like that is really confusing at first sight, but you´ll get used to it.

I´m looking at a chart now, written by my friend for our octet.
It´s Richard Carpenter´s "Walkin´" ( yes, the same that Miles played ). It has these parts:

Intro ( with a segno #1 in the beginning and segno #2 in the last bar )
A ( theme )
B ( theme part 2 wth a solo pickup bar in the end )
C ( a bass solo )
D ( open solo chorus )
Background #1 ( played on cue behind solo )
Background #2 ( played behind sax solos on cue )
Background #3 ( played behind guest soloist and guitar solo on cue )
E ( Last theme part 1 )
F ( Last theme part 2 )
Then segno #1 to coda #2

Every part has different chords, so it must
be played exactly as is....

And as we all know, Walkin´ is a blues.

R2

[lermgalieu]

Yeah, I know it's Db I was just trying to simulate the moment of panic when I realized I sounded totally out of tune and looked and realized there was a key change 8 bars before that! Of course it was on the 5th page of the chart so I could barely see it anyway I can see how this stuff would be addictive, I imagine its quite a rush to be able to take all this stuff in stride and sound great.

[Eric Jackson]

Originally Posted by lermgalieu

...the moment of panic when I realized I sounded totally out of tune and looked and realized there was a key change 8 bars before that!

Been there, done that...

Soooo much beautiful music falls under the umbrella of 'big band'. How many Real Book tunes are big band era tunes? And how many different arrangements are there for each of them? (There can't be more than about a couple hundred Satin Doll charts...)

Improvised small-group jazz is great 'n all, music conceived and executed in the moment. For me, a meticulously crafted arrangement for a big band is a whole 'nuther thing. With a big band you can create harmonies, counterpoint and dynamic range that can't be achieved by a small group, and still have room to blow solos. A big band can have incredible power without benefit of a killer PA. If you can get your head outa the chart, it's a gas to watch a dancefloor full of people, young and old, diggin' the music. I even enjoy the black suit, white shirt, black bowtie gig dress. (Our leader wears a white tux.) Overall, it's just too much fun.

Ok, ok, I'll shuddupaboudit.

[lermgalieu]

I just thought I would post my teacher's response to my summary of my experience:

Wow! Sounds like some of my early big band experiences-if they invited you back, I wouldn't worry about it. Like I said-everyone needs a bass player. As we talked, some of the charts in these bands are pretty hacked up and the leaders either won't fix them or don't know they're bad. Sambas-they almost always led to problems as I remember. Ususally the drummer or some of the horns would do exactly
that; play it twice the speed as written, as though it was cut time. I would usually remind the leader and/or sing the melody if I knew it to help them get the tempo correct. In one band I was in a fight broke out over what was 'double time' vs. 'double time feel'; in other words, twice as fast or twice as slow. I still don't know. It's all part of big band experience. it's also typical that the leaders don't like to let the book go home for practice or drop it off before a rehearsal-I guess they're worried about someone stealing the parts for another band, which makes no sense if you only have the bass part!