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10-12-2006, 07:12 AM
| | | | Bitches brew?
Guys, please enlighten me... 
I have always loved Miles' work, and I have most of his recorded output, but I never owned Bitches Brew. I've heard so much about how revolutionary it was, and how it started fusion basically. I saw footage of them playing the material long before I bought it...
But.....
Damn, this **** is hard listening! Dave Holland said it had a "searching" quality to it. It sounds like a bunch of confused people scared to play a note, and not sure what the **** is going on...  I've been in that situation before, and that's what this sounds like to me.
Does anyone actually like this record? I was always told to listen to stuff and I'd be enlightened, even if I didn't like it, but damn... This is HARD listening, and I LOVE Miles's stuff?!?
Please help me see something that I'm missing. I find it a overhyped piece of crap at the moment, but I'm gonna do my best to get through all of side two...
But, If music is medicine to the soul, this certainly tastes like castor oil...
Thanks,
D.
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Last edited by Blackbird : 11-21-2006 at 08:54 AM.
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10-12-2006, 07:20 AM
|  | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | | I think it's OK - interesting - kind of a transitional record.
I much prefer "In a Silent Way" - which I play frequently - but Bitches Brew only rarely.
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
10-12-2006, 01:01 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manhattan (Hell's Kitchen), NY | | | a masterpiece
Bitches Brew is the one record I would take with me on a desert island. I discovered it in 1989 and I can still find something new every time I listen to it (especially the closing track "Sanctuary"). You do need some time to get into it, I agree with you.
-Marco |
10-12-2006, 01:05 PM
| | | | Really?It just sounds vague to me. I'll check out thesong though, thanks... |
10-12-2006, 02:23 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lakeside, CA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield I much prefer "In a Silent Way" - which I play frequently - but Bitches Brew only rarely. |
+1 |
10-12-2006, 05:27 PM
| | | | So will no one admit it's the kind of cd that will turn off even a lover of jazz?
Why is it hyped so much? If you guys admit not "listening to it very often?" |
10-13-2006, 01:52 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Hyped by whom... 
I think there was some publicity arround the recent(ish) release of a boxed set with all the session out-takes etc - but I've never never seen it touted as one of Miles' best - whereas the Penguin Guide to Jazz on CD hails "Live at the Plugged Nickel as the best Jazz record ever!! 
I've heard it called monumentally flawed and that there was a big fight in the studio between producer and artist!! 
And if you ask Ken Burns or Wynton Marsalis..... 
__________________
“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus
Last edited by Bruce Lindfield : 10-13-2006 at 01:57 AM.
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10-13-2006, 02:28 AM
| | | | that's what worries me.. I find myself in their mindset. If I'm not careful, I might start disliking electric instuments or something.
I'm starting toward the dark side... |
10-13-2006, 02:46 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | To be honest I've already gone that way - so I started out playing BG and worked my way into Jazz via fusion through Miles - but now I much prefer acoustic Jazz and love playing DB acoustically!!
__________________
“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
10-13-2006, 08:53 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southeast Michigan | | | BB was the first Miles album I ever heard, back in High School, I think, and it turned me off to him for a long time. It wasn't until I listened to the earlier albums many years later that I discovered what a brilliant musician he was. |
10-13-2006, 09:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: www.cookeharvey.com | | | in 1970 I got Miles Live at the Fillmore and have been listening to it far more than Bitches Brew because it is live and has gret energy which I think BB lacks - the themes are the same |
10-13-2006, 09:15 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chicago | | Don't forget that it was done at a time when people were experimenting with the art form. It was a renaissance(sp?) period. Electric instruments were being used in a more or less non-traditional way as far as jazz was concerned. I'm not enamored with that album either but I think it's important to recognize that it paved the way for alot of guys who played electric instruments to express themselves in a jazz-type idiom.
Of course, to some, it might sound like a bunch of guys just wanking on their axes...... 
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Bob Moses
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10-13-2006, 09:16 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by tappingtrance in 1970 I got Miles Live at the Fillmore and have been listening to it far more than Bitches Brew because it is live and has gret energy which I think BB lacks - the themes are the same | I bought that and like parts of it - but my girfriend came in when I was listening and started covering her ears saying that is the worst record you have ever played - never play it when I am in the house again!!
But she likes "Kind of Blue"....
__________________
“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
10-13-2006, 10:29 AM
| | Inadvertent Microtonalist | | Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, ME | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hadley Damn, this is hard listening! . . . It sounds like a bunch of confused people scared to play a note, and not sure what the **** is going on... Does anyone actually like this record? | You're clearly picking up on the fact that Bitchs' Brew is permeated with the sound of people taking big musical risks. I don't hear it as tentative or confused, though. Maybe take one more spin through listening for risk from a position of strength.
The part that doesn't come through almost forty years later is the degree to which Miles was taking a career risk. After Silent Way Miles could easily have stepped back to an ESP-kinda thing and made scads of easy money. Brew represented a complete break with Mr. Button-Down. Ultimately the risk paid off financially (and most say musically) but that was wide open at the time.
Hope this helps.
__________________
"We can give to those who listen to the essence the best of what we are. But to do that, at each stage we have to keep on cleaning the mirror." -- John Coltrane
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10-13-2006, 01:36 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manhattan (Hell's Kitchen), NY | | Well,
Wikipedia comes in handy, as usual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitches_Brew
Great read, isn't it? I really enjoyed this part:
"In a 1997 interview, drummer Bobby Previte sums up his feelings about Bitches Brew thus: "Well, it was groundbreaking, for one. How much groundbreaking music do you hear now? It was music that you had that feeling you never heard quite before. It came from another place. How much music do you hear now like that?" |
10-13-2006, 01:38 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manhattan (Hell's Kitchen), NY | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield I bought that and like parts of it - but my girfriend came in when I was listening and started covering her ears saying that is the worst record you have ever played - never play it when I am in the house again!!
But she likes "Kind of Blue".... | Well, if you hit her with "Spanish Key" or some other aggressive/super dense tracks, I understand where she's coming from. If that's the case, play "Sanctuary" for her, and her reaction might be a little different.
-Marco |
10-13-2006, 01:54 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: www.cookeharvey.com | | | hey don't forget that album is not 'as played' meaning it was cut and spliced all over the place. Now one would think that should make it better.... I am knocked out by the Cellar Door CD pack - I really never dug Michael Henderson but when you think he had like one rehearsal and played this gig it is amazing - his feel is great. He was real young too on that gig. It is a lot of the Bitches Brew themes.
Anyway - Bitches Brew can grow on you - I would suggest take one tune and only listen to it rather than the whole double album. Focus on the groove, the theme, the specific instruments and then assess it. It is tough, your ears are being stretched as probably your musical 'belief' system. Hey but trust your instincts and maybe it just isn't for you at the end of the day. |
10-13-2006, 02:20 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lakeside, CA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield Hyped by whom... | dhadleyray is right, it is hyped. I have read a few articles over the years about BB. They all say basically the same thing that it was a pivotal jazz album because it was Miles' transition into fusion. I took a jazz history class in college and the text book said the same thing.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with what I read. I'm merely reporting what I read and that it I've heard the hype.
I still prefer In a Silent Way.
Ben |
10-13-2006, 02:23 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Boston, Taxachusetts | | | Some of the "confusion" you hear might be the result of the tape edits. Most of the tunes are spliced together from hours of jamming over simple vamps and heads (the 4 CD box set includes all the original takes before the edits were made).
I've been listening to BB for 35 years now and still hear new things very time I listen. If you don't like minimalism and groove-based music you'll probably never like it. No reason to feel guilty about it. |
10-13-2006, 02:45 PM
| | | | Thanks guys, I feel REALLY guilty that I even brought this up. I sat and listened for awhile, after the experience I kept thinking "**** this, I'm not enjoying the experience..." I appreciate the help. I'm going through incredible amounts of ****ed up **** now, and I'm playing music to give me strength and inspiration, but this BB stuff is making me want to strangle a chicken or something! Thanks Sam, I forgot the historical relevance of it and your comment helped me remember...
P.S. You too Bruce, thanks... You guys are helping me more than you know...
I've been on the phone with David Amram, (we did a gig together..) and, in conjunction with you guys, I'm fighting to keep it real..
I am gonna play this tonight, and find an angle or something to make me hear the risks being played..
Last edited by dhadleyray : 10-13-2006 at 02:54 PM.
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