Dear Mr. David Gage:

tkozal · #1 07-21-2006, 01:42 PM

Please put a big text item on your web front page, along the lines of "Basses show by Appointment only". It will save people like me, locals, who actually think you are a store, like your website makes one think.

I'm so pissed have be being basically shoed out of your "store", I need to find someone else in the area who can sell me a DB in the $4000 to $8000 range.

Thank you

(and when I calm down I may post precisley how I was treated)

What is it with musical instrument retailers anyway? Geez......

drurb · #2 07-21-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkozal

What is it with musical instrument retailers anyway?

Well, I don't know what occurred but I certainly wouldn't generalize your experience to the bulk of retailers. That is, at least, not to the ones usually discussed here.

musicman5string · #3 07-21-2006, 02:19 PM

Uh oh...

what happened man? I mean, pretty much any bass shop I know (which includes electric guys like Sadowsky, etc.) ask you make an appointment before showing up.
I'm not defending Gage, as you have not said what happened, but I do know that the shop can get crazy busy, and it's not wise to have 15 guys in that small space with expensive basses all over the place.
Then again, I hope you weren't treated disrespectfully...

Kam · #4 07-21-2006, 02:52 PM

I had a completely different experience last July when i visited. I was in the city for a weekend and thought I'd take my chances. I called them up on a Saturday afternoon when I was already in the area, right before I got there. I came in and a very friendly guy showed me around the floor that was in my price range. He was extremely patient and eager to show me the basses he thought were the best for the price. He even had to start getting ready for a gig and still talked to me about the playing environment in NYC. Overall a great experience, especially for such a last-minute decision on my part to check it out.

Frank Louis · #5 07-21-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkozal

Please put a big text item on your web front page, along the lines of "Basses show by Appointment only". It will save people like me, locals, who actually think you are a store, like your website makes one think.

I was in Chinatown recently and I thought I'd drop in on a whim . . No good . . . They were pleasant enough about it, but it is frustrating seeing that room full of basses but you've got to go, sorry no appointment, no touch . . .

drurb · #6 07-21-2006, 03:25 PM

Perhaps this is a case of, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

DrBassie · #7 07-21-2006, 03:31 PM

Yeah, I showed up at the shop a couple of weeks ago without an appointment, but as I walked in, I knew that it wasn't a "come look around shop". They were crazy busy, so I just went on my way to Chinatown.

I do think they should make it more up front that they aren't really a perusal type of shop, especially for the out-of-towners that don't have bass shops in their towns (like Orlando, FL!!!).

toman · #8 07-21-2006, 04:00 PM

I would sure like it if more shops were "customer friendly". Too many shops, in my opinion, drive away customers, probably without even meaning to. Between the whole appointment only thing, snobby attitudes, overly eccentric personalities, and poor shop/showroom setup, the whole scene is very off-putting to many people, myself included. I'm sure most of these guys are good people who don't mean to be rude or irritating, but the fact is that's how they come across, for whatever reason, and they really aren't helping either themselves or the industry as a whole.

Frank Louis · #9 07-21-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBassie

Yeah, I showed up at the shop a couple of weeks ago without an appointment, but as I walked in, I knew that it wasn't a "come look around shop". They were crazy busy, so I just went on my way to Chinatown.

I do think they should make it more up front that they aren't really a perusal type of shop, especially for the out-of-towners that don't have bass shops in their towns (like Orlando, FL!!!).

I agree, I happened to be in town to play a gig that night on the upper east side . . It would be cool to have a large shop like that where you can just drop in, shoot the breeze with other musicians and the shop luthiers, try out different basses and get some ideas and inspiration, and who knows, maybe show up on the gig with a new bass ! !

Cory Palmer · #10 07-21-2006, 04:20 PM

My experience with Gage's shop was positive. I flew into NYC to get a lesson with Orin O'Brien because I was checking out teachers for grad school and I decided to go check out Gage's shop while I was in town. I actually got there before they opened so I went around the corner and got some breakfast while I waited. When I went back I talked with Sam a little and he showed me upstairs to where all the basses are. He told me about some of the basses and got some out for me and let me loose while he went and did whatever else he had to do. I was definitely a kid in a candy shop. It was a very pleasant experience. I imagine that if they were extremely busy or had appointmets for other people to be looking at basses at the time I was there they would not have been able to be so accommodating.

Pcocobass · #11 07-21-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Louis

It would be cool to have a large shop like that where you can just drop in, shoot the breeze with other musicians and the shop luthiers, try out different basses and get some ideas and inspiration

Although I agree that this would be great, it's not really the vibe you get in a lot of stores in Manhattan. I don't think people are trying to be rude, but the mindset is a bit different than other places.

Having said that, every time I've been to to Gage I've been treated extremely well. Sam is very knowledgeable and helpful. But an appointment is always a good thing to have.

My current daytime job is sales at a large retail store on Long Island. Although I like chatting with customers and discussing new equipment, etc., when the store is busy, it's really not practical to do so and the customer should also understand it is unfair to people who are purchasing and to sales people working on commission to eat up their time with no intention to buy. If it's a slow time during the day, most sales people have no trouble shootin' the breeze for a while.

toman · #12 07-21-2006, 05:17 PM

One shop that I've had consistently good experiences with and that I feel should be a role model for others is Hammond Ashley in Seattle. They have a very laid back atmosphere, with lots of instruments out and about, and they've always been super accomodating to turn me loose with the basses and bows, including ones that are quite clearly out of my league. Even if I'm not looking to buy anything or have work done, whenever I'm in Seattle I make a point of stopping in, just because it's such a great place. They also do great work; the older guy named Dave there is a real artist from what I've seen. Those guys have been in business a long time and seem to do quite well for themselves, so it seems obvious to me that it is definately possible to run a business in that manner and still be very successful.

Mudfuzz · #13 07-21-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

One shop that I've had consistently good experiences with and that I feel should be a role model for others is Hammond Ashley in Seattle. They have a very laid back atmosphere, with lots of instruments out and about, and they've always been super accomodating to turn me loose with the basses and bows, including ones that are quite clearly out of my league. Even if I'm not looking to buy anything or have work done, whenever I'm in Seattle I make a point of stopping in, just because it's such a great place. They also do great work; the older guy named Dave there is a real artist from what I've seen. Those guys have been in business a long time and seem to do quite well for themselves, so it seems obvious to me that it is definately possible to run a business in that manner and still be very successful.

+1
Dave's worked on my bass a while ago and did a real nice job. Plus I only live fifteen minutes away from them which makes it all the more cool.

KSB - Ken Smith · #14 07-21-2006, 08:09 PM

I don't know Gage or his shop so I can't directly judge him but I do run a business myself. If I am going to a shop, I always call before travelling to mainly make sure they will be in. This is not a regular retail type business. With the focus on repairs, they tend to make their own hours. Currently and over the years I have dealt with 4 different NY shops. They are Eibert, Biase, Schnitzer and Bollbach. I would feel pretty stupid if I drove 3 hours only to find out he's 'gone fishing'!

Now, on the other hand, being in town from where ever and finding shops to visit you do things on the spot. I often have visitors that just walk in without warning or appointment. I make my best effort to show them what they are looking for because I may not get another chance. Today a woman walked in with her 13 year old son. He plays Cello and BG. He was interested in a Fretless 4-string. After a long conversation and showing him a few Basses including letting him try both my Loveri and Prescott I told them it was not a good choice for him. His main Bass should not be a Fretless and his cheapo a Fretted as far as the business goes.

Years ago when I was on the road I used to visit any shops I could find as well as dropping in some NY shops when I was free. I usually got to look around but that was years ago. Life is different in todays economics so you should just be polite and find out what policies the shop has.

I might have done something different than Gage but who knows what they had on the 'plate' at that very moment.

Plan ahead, it's the best way...

JimmyM · #15 07-21-2006, 08:28 PM

Next time that happens, pull out $10,000 in cash and say, "Boy, that's a bummer. I was really hoping to unload this and take home a nice bass in its place." Then leave no matter how much he begs you to stay.

I once had a situation similar. I was shopping for an electric, and I asked this sales jerk (whom I had bought stuff off of in the past) about the price of a bass, and he says to me, "Come in with the cash and we'll talk. Otherwise you're just wasting my time." I said, "OK, Kevin, no problem." Then I went to his competitor and bought a bass almost immediately. I brought it back to him and said, "You know, I stopped by the bank to get money for you, but it just happened to be next to this other shop, so I just bought one of their basses instead. Have a good day." He says, "Well if I'd have known you were serious, I'd have worked with you." HA! Should have thought about that beforehand, shouldn't you?

So my point is it's a buyer's market, especially when it comes to musical instruments. There is no excuse for being shown the door when you are a customer. Even if you're not in the market that moment, today's window shopper is tomorrow's potential customer. So if Gage or anyone else did that to me, it would be the absolute last chance they ever had to make any of my money.

KSB - Ken Smith · #16 07-21-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Next time that happens, pull out $10,000 in cash and say, "Boy, that's a bummer. I was really hoping to unload this and take home a nice bass in its place." Then leave no matter how much he begs you to stay.

In some shops with 10K you might get an answer like; "Oh, so you're looking for a nice Bow huh?" ..lol

By the way, in case I decide to pay them a visit on one of my NY trips, do they have much in the better Italian or English Basses from the 18th - 19th century? Not that I would buy one from a shop retail but that would be the only attraction for a potential visit.

musicman5string · #17 07-21-2006, 09:26 PM

I think we're jumping to conclusions here without hearing the story from the horses mouth.

Personally, I know Gage's shop can get crazy, and David is only one of 5-6 people who work there, and he is alot of the times not even there. I know 1 or 2 guys who are pretty gruff, to say the least, and are often knee deep in repairs and trying to talk to 3 other people, plus answering the calls of concerned customers. David, personally, has never been anything other than very nice and accomodating to me.

Again, not defending them; we still don't know what happened...

I had a bad a brush with a certain NY luthier years back; he was, in my opinion, a total a-hole. I never did go back again. Maybe he was having a bad day, but I didn't feel like finding out.....

Frank Louis · #18 07-21-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

One shop that I've had consistently good experiences with and that I feel should be a role model for others is Hammond Ashley in Seattle. They have a very laid back atmosphere, with lots of instruments out and about, and they've always been super accomodating to turn me loose with the basses and bows, including ones that are quite clearly out of my league. Even if I'm not looking to buy anything or have work done, whenever I'm in Seattle I make a point of stopping in, just because it's such a great place. They also do great work; the older guy named Dave there is a real artist from what I've seen. Those guys have been in business a long time and seem to do quite well for themselves, so it seems obvious to me that it is definately possible to run a business in that manner and still be very successful.

Well there you go . . . it can be done. As tkozal stated in the opening thread, I too was under the impression that the world reknown David Gage Music would be more like Hammond Ashley in Seattle, but it's not. So either make an appointment, or take your business elsewhere. The shame of it is, they are losing sales by being so inflexible about this. It's not that hard to size up a walk in customer to determine if they are a serious buyer or not. I'm sure their staff are savy enough to handle that. Or maybe if they're too busy at the moment, come back in an hour or so. But this is not what they tell you. You must call for an appointment at least two days in advance, have a nice day !

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #19 07-21-2006, 09:59 PM

I would suggest directing your complaint directly to David himself.

davidgage@davidgage.com

JimmyM · #20 07-21-2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

In some shops with 10K you might get an answer like; "Oh, so you're looking for a nice Bow huh?" ..lol

Heh...well hey, if they're not interested in selling a bow for $10,000, that's their problem. I have no idea what it's like being the super rich elite, but it's been my experience that very few of them operate double bass specialty shops, so I see no reason for the 'tude.