That double bass sound...

[ibdman]

I need suggestions for getting something close to the double bass sound out of an electric fretless bass setup (not EUB). I realize this is practically heresy on this double bass forum but please let me explain why I ask. I current play a 1975 P-bass in a jazz trio and I long for the pure sound of a double bass. Recently I spent some time trying to adapt to the much larger fret board of the double bass and I'm finding that my 50 years old arthritic hands are not going to cooperate and I must give up my quest for playing the double bass in my trio. Therefore, I am limited as to what my options are and I was thinking there must be an electric fretless bass (not EUB) & amp setup that sounds like a double bass more so than anything else (or at least I hope there is). If anyone has any suggestion on equipment selection please let me know so I can start looking for something to try. Thank you.

[Brad Maestas]

Welcome to Talkbass!

How much do you want to spend?

My first suggestion would be the Rob Allen MB-2.

There are others but the MB-2 has served me very well in this regard.

[Chasarms]

Never played a Rob Allen , but a fretless Godin A4/A5 with flats is about as close as I have ever heard. Not close, but closer than most.

It's also a really nice BG.

[Marcus Johnson]

Could you handle a shortscale EUB? I was pretty convinced that a short EUB couldn't get upright-like tones.... until I got my NS Designs BassCello. The string height can be set anywhere you want it, including at a super low fretless bass height. The thing sounds great, and you can even bow it. Not cheap, but a really lovely instrument. A more affordable alternative might be the Azola Gypsy Bass, or even one of their beautiful fretless bass guitars. The Rob Allen is really nice, too. Or the Godin.... all good suggestions.

No heresy in playing whatever allows you to get the music out.

[TheSuzie]

Welcome to TB.

IMO before you spend a bunch of money on a new instrument, you may want to try putting a set of less bright flatwound strings on your pbass (if you don't already have them), sticking a bit of soft foam under the strings just in front of the bridge saddles, rolling off the pbass tone control and experimenting with your EQ and right hand technique.

If this does not satisfy, then think about a new instrument. If it does, you saved a load of money.

Peace,
S

[mrpc]

The NS Designs BassCello is sounding like a really good thing. (looking forward to tring one of those for sure.)
I think the biggest factor will be in your approach to getting a sound out of the instrument with your hands.
How about one of those Jack Casady Epiphone basses with the frets removed?
or.......What does KSB think?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'd try the Rob Allen "Mouse". I played one at the Columbus GTG last year and was completely blown away by it. If I ever buy another plank, that's gonna be the one. Why don't you fill in your profile so that maybe some folks near where you live can suggests where you might be able to hear some of this stuff?

[jallenbass]

Don Oatman at Low Down Sound told me that he really likes his Line 6 EB. He says that it has an upright sound that is close enough for him.

[JimmyM]

Dude, I'd just use the P-bass. I've tried to do this in my bands and I've discovered that the mere act of playing the electric like you would an upright will get you closer to sounding like an upright than anything. The bass is pretty much immaterial, quite honestly.

[ctxbass]

As previously suggested, P bass, flatwounds, and foam. Foam under a bridge cover on top of the strings seems to work better than foam under the strings. You can experiment with different densities, thickness, and how much of each string you cover.

It all really depends on the sound you want. There are so many different upright sounds.

[mrpc]

Foam under the strings works OK, but it always makes intonation less accurate the higher up the neck you play, doesn't it?

[bassist1962]

I did a gig a few years back that we recorded. I was using my Squier P-Bass Special, through a Fender BXR amp. The Drummer is the one who noticed tho upright type of sound coming out. I don't know what my settings were, but I do know that I was using Elixir strings. But I would go with what everybody else has suggested. Either Flats and foam, or Short Scale EUB. I read somewhere that Joe Zawunal had to ask Jaco if he knew how to play Bass Guitar, as he thought the audition recordings he was listening to were done on Upright. Hope this helps.

[jsbarber]

Steve Azola recently introduced a small scale EUB called the Gypsy Moth, with a 34" scale. You should check it out.
http://azola.com/sys-tmpl/door/

[Edit - oops, looks like Marcus Johnson already pointed this out. Anyway, now you have the link]

Jaco did a great job on Days of Wine and Roses on his last recording, with the Brian Melvin Trio. Best Jazz BG sound I've heard. But trying to reproduce that guy's tone on fretless BG would be a real challenge. It took "The Greatest Bass Guitarist In The World" many years to get to that level. Easier just to get the EUB.

Jim

[bilco]

I play a Pbass with Thomastic Infeld Jazz Flats and I think that's about as close to the sound as I'm gonna get with an electric bass. I roll off the high end and play about 4" inside the end of the neck.

bilco

[Marcus Johnson]

If you want to try the shorty EUB route, you might also want to contact Jesse from Ergo instruments. I think he makes a bass cello as well, and his prices are hard to beat.

You might want to just defret that P-bass and give it a go. Bilco's last suggestion (jazz flats and hand position) is right on the money. If you didn't want to defret your existing instrument, you could just get a fretless Mexican Fender P (or J) bass and go from there. I have one, and it works fine. I think they go for about $250.

[mrpc]

I have a L-Series P-bass with the Thomastik flats. They have been on the bass for over 10 years. They sound great, and it is pretty easy to get an upright sound with it. Other bassists who have played this bass always coment on it's upright like tone.

Rick Turner's Renaissance Fretless Basses are excellent. It is my understanding that Rob Allen worked in Rick's shop for quite awhile.

Ron Carter's bass sound on the old CTI records is a good model for amplified upright bass sound. I really liked his work with Antonio Carlos Jobim on "Stoneflower". So I think studying a recorded sound that you like will help.

This led me to modify my 72 P-Bass with a extra pu VERY near the bridge (such as a mid "70's Jazz) and early EMG pickups. With the P-bass pu backed off a "hair", and GHS Half Rounds, I was getting a sound that often challenged upright die hards to reconsider the Fender bass. Of course, then came Jaco. At the time I was trying real hard to get my upright chops together. (Still am!)

Again, the sound is what you hear, ala your hands and heart. Just go for it! Be fearless and experiment.

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by SMASH

I've never heard anything as close to a DB sound from an electric as this :

http://www.hotwire-bass.com/basses/d...mp3s/hwdb1.mp3

http://www.hotwire-bass.com/basses/d.../double_en.htm

That's pretty impressive.

[mrpc]

Yeah, sounds good! Gotta have that upright sound in mind to sound like that......still more the player than the bass.

[Sippy]

Have you tried flatwounds on a yor 70's p bass? When I put them on my 73 it was close... after messing with the Eq

[mje]

Originally Posted by bilco

I play a Pbass with Thomastic Infeld Jazz Flats and I think that's about as close to the sound as I'm gonna get with an electric bass. I roll off the high end and play about 4" inside the end of the neck.

bilco

Ditto the Jazz Flats and pizz at the end of the fingerboard. Dialing in some piezo on my old Fender Precision A/E helps, too, as does muting the strings at the bridge.

There are a lot of good acoustic/electric fretless basses these days. I was looking at the Carvin before a friend sold me the A/E in a moment of weakness.