Ear protection for jazz?

BassBot · #1 12-19-2006, 09:11 AM

I recently had a very harrowing experience where I lost my hearing temporarily due to an infection (unrelated to music).

It got me thinking about ear protection. I've always used ear plugs for rock/R&B/etc. But I've never really used them in jazz, because of obvious reasons (i.e. you must really "hear" the music to improvise and play off other musicians).

I haven't noticed many other jazz musicians using them either, even in big bang formats or small ensembles with drummers--or in larger venues with amplification systems.

I was wondering what people's thoughts are on ear protection for jazz.

jazzbassnerd · #2 12-19-2006, 12:23 PM

I think if you have good enough ear plugs, it shouldn't affect your hearing the music, you'll just hear it 10dBs softer.

Ed Fuqua · #3 12-19-2006, 12:59 PM

I dunno, I play with some drummers that use them. I don't, personally. I also try never to play in high volume situations.

JBN - I don't know about good vs. bad ear plugs, almost anything I've had experience with (I do wear earplugs when I ride the train) seems to be best at filtering out high frequencies (since the shorter hairs that deliver the electrical impulses that turn into high frequency "sound" are the easiest and first ones to break), so anything I've used not only makes it 10 db softer, but it also makes it less "present" because of reduced treble.

BassBot · #4 12-19-2006, 01:55 PM

Scott,

What kind of earplugs do you recommend? I haven't found any that I really like thus far. Thanks.

dperrott · #5 12-19-2006, 02:17 PM

I highly recommend going to an Audiologist and getting some custom-made earplugs. Just tell them you want a pair of musician’s earplugs. They will make a mold of your ears to make the earplugs. Most times you can get them in 5, 15, or 30 db’s. I have the 15db earplugs. The device that cuts the db’s can be swapped with the others. If you get 30db you could swap the insert for a 15 db “resistor”. They work really well. It cuts the frequencies out evenly so it doesn’t sound too different when you have them in. It does take a bit to get used too. I think the key is to put them in before you play and leave them in. You will never get accustomed to them if you take them in and out and it will make it seem like more of a difference then they actually are. I think they may run around $150

theshadow2001 · #6 12-19-2006, 02:49 PM

Snares, crashes, hi hats, most if not all of a brass section, guitars with bad tone, bad PA's and badly EQed PA (especially when too loud) are all things that make me cringe when Im exposed to too high a volume of. I can honestly feel them damaging my ears.

I think it really depends about amplification if its just a piano guitar bass playing acoustically I don't think I would wear ear protection. As soon as a drummer sits into the equation my plugs go straight in. Although I havent really played with a drummer using brushes so I'm not sure how that would affect the situation. If there's horns I'd definitely have plugs in no question asked. Those things put out some serious high frequencies at serious volumes.

+1 for the customs. I used foam industrial ear plugs and others assorted crap ear plugs. The difference between them and custom plugs is night and day. Especially with the -15dB filters which have the flatest response. I never found ear plugs something that you need to get used to. They make things that are too loud comfortable to listen to.

Just think which is better. Having slightly less presence when you play or having a few different frequencies constantly ringing in your ears, that never leaves when you try to sleep, when you watch TV at low volumes, when your walking around at night. Everytime it's quiet there it is, constantly, forever. For some it doesn't even have to be quiet. It's just always there regardless. Unfortunately it's too late for me to choose.

Michael Case · #7 12-19-2006, 03:05 PM

Yeah, I got the ring, but I don't use ear plugs in small jazz settings. I recently did an off broadway show in a small "pit" the trumpets were right behind me, needless to say I wore plugs ($15.00 hearos from Sam Ash) and they saved my life. I am going to look into the customs, because my ring isn't that bad . . . yet.

jazzbassnerd · #8 12-19-2006, 03:14 PM

I believe, as mentioned, the custom ear plugs from an audiologist are the best. They have a flat frequency response and are molded to your ear canal. Everyone I know with them has had only praise and I'm thinking of getting those as soon as possible.

Ed- It's really strange, I've read a few places that it is actually low frequencies that damage your hearing more, but I agree that the non-custom ear plugs do tend to take out more treble than bass. You seem to know more about the ear than I do, so I differ to you on which frequencies damage more.

Marc Piane · #9 12-19-2006, 04:18 PM

Custom earplugs
+1

I never use then for jazz gigs. I use a MB-150 for most stuff so I can't get that loud.

When I play chop I always use them. I use a bigger amp for those gigs though they are few and far between (thank god). I have custom plugs and I use 10db filters.

theshadow2001 · #10 12-19-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzbassnerd

Ed- It's really strange, I've read a few places that it is actually low frequencies that damage your hearing more, but I agree that the non-custom ear plugs do tend to take out more treble than bass. You seem to know more about the ear than I do, so I differ to you on which frequencies damage more.

I don't believe that bass frequencies are as damaging as higher frequncies. This is why you hear less treble with industrial plugs especially. Since they are designed to reduce the most damaging content of whatever noise you are hearing

BassBot · #11 12-21-2006, 09:18 AM

I'll have to look into those custom plugs. I have used the store-bought MusicSafe HiFis for rock formats and they seem to be the best among the non-custom versions. I ordered them online from this site in Germany: http://www.earplugs.de/Cont/Plugs/MusicSafe-III.asp

I did feel like they weren't as good for jazz--they seemed to "dull" my auditory senses a bit too much. But it might be worth getting used to if it means no ringing and retaining my hearing. Plus, I think they are a good alternative to often pricier customs.

Randy Ward · #12 12-21-2006, 12:34 PM

My father lost most of his hearing in one ear when he was in the service and was helping someone with a gun that had jammed. It went off right next to his ear. When I was in my first rock band he gave everyone in the band a pair of those rubber ear plugs. I was the only one who ever wore them.

I pretty much have had ear plugs of some kind on hand for any loud musical situation I've ever been involved in. One of my teachers lost part of his hearing playing in UN-amplified bands in the '50s, he said it was from the "splang-a-lang" Cymbals. I've worn them so long that I am pretty used to the reduced frequency that is the by product of wearing plugs. actually I think it makes it easier to hear the bass's pitch, when being bombarded by loud drummers and amplified keys/guitar or winds. (why do big bands mic the trumpets anyway)?

I had some of the high priced molded plugs made but it turns out my ear canals are short and they didn't stay in. The good news is when I had them made I had my hearing tested and I haven't lost anything yet. I just use the foam ones and stash them in all my gig bags and tux pockets etc. My favorites are the ones that they use in the MRI rooms.
Yeah if it's just a 'intelligent' guitar player (oxymoron?) or acoustic piano duo I don't need 'em.
I recently did a gig with players I didn't know, backing a 'headliner' singer. The drummer could not believe I was wearing plugs, he didn't think it was loud, he said 'its just jazz. but my head was right next to that dang splang-a-lang ride! I just don't take chances with my ears.

Kam · #13 12-21-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

I don't believe that bass frequencies are as damaging as higher frequncies. This is why you hear less treble with industrial plugs especially. Since they are designed to reduce the most damaging content of whatever noise you are hearing

Low frequencies at high volumes are more damaging, i.e. kids dancing right in front of a club's subwoofers.

gp_bass · #14 12-21-2006, 01:14 PM

i use the foam ones but cut them in half, so they're only about 3/8" long. this seems to let more of the highs in, and feel a little less dead. i always keep a pair in my pocket, even when i'm just going out to a bar for a drink. i was most recently glad for them when i went to see a movie in a big theatre. my friends made fun of me, but after 5 mins i had already forgotten that i had them in.

Randy Ward · #15 12-21-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp_bass

i always keep a pair in my pocket, even when i'm just going out to a bar for a drink. i was most recently glad for them when i went to see a movie in a big theatre. my friends made fun of me, but after 5 mins i had already forgotten that i had them in.

+1 Agreed.
great for Movies ,concerts, bars and theme parks. I always bring the foam plugs. Also good for sleeping in noisey places.

drurb · #16 12-21-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I dunno, I play with some drummers that use them. I don't, personally. I also try never to play in high volume situations.

JBN - I don't know about good vs. bad ear plugs, almost anything I've had experience with (I do wear earplugs when I ride the train) seems to be best at filtering out high frequencies (since the shorter hairs that deliver the electrical impulses that turn into high frequency "sound" are the easiest and first ones to break), so anything I've used not only makes it 10 db softer, but it also makes it less "present" because of reduced treble.

The shorter hairs? Well, not exactly. It is the mechanics of the cochlea and the resonant properties of the ear as a whole that render the high-frequency (basal) region most susceptible to damage.

drurb · #17 12-21-2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kam

Low frequencies at high volumes are more damaging, i.e. kids dancing right in front of a club's subwoofers.

Yes, they can be but this is not necessarily so. Take a look. See here for the dBA scale.

Kam · #18 12-21-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

Yes, they can be but this is not necessarily so. Take a look. See here for the dBA scale.

Forgive my ignorance to a majority of information in that first link, but are you basically saying that dB is really what matters? Or do different frequencies affect a different part of the ear?

drurb · #19 12-22-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kam

Forgive my ignorance to a majority of information in that first link, but are you basically saying that dB is really what matters? Or do different frequencies affect a different part of the ear?

There is no ignorance on your part that needs any forgiving! After all, one cannot expect that most folks here have studied noise-induced hearing loss. It is quite a complicated topic. In general, the dBA scale is used to make noise-exposure measurements. The scale weights the mid-frequencies to the greatest extent. Those are the frequencies to which the ear is most sensitive. It is, however, the high-frequency region of the cochlea, specifically the 4-6 kHz region, that seems the most susceptible to damage. I'll leave it there.

**Jeremy Allen** · #20 12-22-2006, 10:44 PM

It may be easy to confuse "the frequencies you're most likely to lose in hearing loss" (high) with "the frequencies that cause the damage." But like Dr. UpRight Bass said, it's a complicated topic.

I have those fancy custom earplugs you get from the audiologist, with 15dB and 25dB filters. I wear 'em with the 15's when I vacuum, ride (rode) the subway, go to loud movies or NFL football games (da Bears rule, I shall not hear otherwise), and play big band gigs/rehearsals. I put the 25's in when I do ridiculously loud bar-band gigs with full P.A. and monitors and overzealous sound guys.
I can't bring myself to wear them on most small group things, though, which is too bad because that's where I spend most of my time and it gets pretty loud being right next to the ride cymbal. But I feel cut off from the music, and I can't tell the volume of the bass relative to that of the band (it's always too quiet in reality, when I think it's fine with plugs in). We basically should all be wearing earplugs all the time, I'm sure; my left ear gets to ringing just from practicing the bass by myself in my house (although my bass is indeed pretty loud).
But I definitely put them in, for example, from the minute I walk into a bar or any other loud situation (sound guys sound-checking the drums or guitar or anything? oh yeah, the plugs are in). Otherwise I get splitting headaches, and I think that's enough indication that something isn't right.