Examples of good jazz arco phrasing

[Paul Warburton]

Originally posted by Johnny L
You can thank the information superhighway for broadening my musical tastes.

Nope.....You can!

[Lovebown]

Originally posted by T-Bal
Yes and no. What are you going for with pizzicato?

I think the whole idea of tapping into the potential of the bow, is that it IS vastly different from pizz. I don't want all of my solos to sound the same. Maybe I want to try and mimic Pat Martino (more pizz-like) one time, and Jim Hall (more bow-like) another. Lee Morgan one time, Miles the next. One solo pensive, another playful, another angst-ridden. Something in keeping with the mood of the tune. Or to change the mood to contrast from the previous soloist...

Bowing should lead you to hear lines that you wouldn't hear when pizzing, and vice versa. As Sam said, it is more than just a timbral difference. With the bow, you have the ability to crescendo on one held note, and to slur many notes together before rearticulating; things you just can't do with pizz. The bow, being the string player's "breath", brings him a step closer to the human voice, which as we know can be the most expressive and emotionally powerful instrument. For these reasons, I don't agree with the mute/no mute analogy.

I see your point , however I don't totally agree

I think that my vocabulary stays pretty much the same whether I'm playing pizz or arco . What I mean with that is whether or not I'm utilizing my bow my ideas/chops/knownledge is the same. My sense of phrasing doesen't change that much.

Now, it doesen't make sense to make my playing sound "different" with the bow. I'll still be hearing the same things over the same chagnes, for instance. My opinion is that the bow IS mainly a timbral diffrence and I use it as such.

And as far as transcribing goes, I belivee the best way
to do it is just to go for something you like, and that you can learn something from, regardless of instrument. And you can learn phrasing from any good instrumentalist (or vocalist) choice of instrument doesen't really matter.

Of course listening to tenor saxmen is good, but there's no point in limiting yourself to that. Also, I think you'd have hard time playing solos of Mike Brecker or Coltrane verbatim arco.


/lovebown

[Phil Smith]

Originally posted by Lovebown
I see your point , however I don't totally agree

I think that my vocabulary stays pretty much the same whether I'm playing pizz or arco . What I mean with that is whether or not I'm utilizing my bow my ideas/chops/knownledge is the same. My sense of phrasing doesen't change that much.

Now, it doesen't make sense to make my playing sound "different" with the bow. I'll still be hearing the same things over the same chagnes, for instance. My opinion is that the bow IS mainly a timbral diffrence and I use it as such.

I find your notion of your playing very interesting, because my own is the exact opposite. To me the bow allows different sonic possibilities which includes different phrasing. As a matter of fact, I'll go as far to say that I think the DB becomes a different instrument at that point, i.e. it's no longer as percussive an instrument once you set a bow to it.

My ideas about soloing with the bow are very different from the ideas I have when playing pizz, I just wish I were able to articulate my ideas more on the instrument.

[Lovebown]

Phil, I know what you mean, but that probably has to do with in which context you are using your bow.

I'm sure if you would take a solo on a tune (let's say a standard) pizzicato, and then take a solo arco on the same tune, your phrasing probably wouldn't be as diffrent as you think.

To me, it seems phrasing is more a product of your inner ideas and time rather than what instrument or technique you're using .... But of course, arco can open up new possibilities.

/lovebown

[David Kaczorowski]

Originally posted by Lovebown
I'm sure if you would take a solo on a tune (let's say a standard) pizzicato, and then take a solo arco on the same tune, your phrasing probably wouldn't be as diffrent as you think.

To me, it seems phrasing is more a product of your inner ideas and time rather than what instrument or technique you're using .... But of course, arco can open up new possibilities.

I agree with you 99%. IMO, the difference being that arco allows you to control notes differently than pizz because notes don't decay, for example, so you could play tied whole notes if you wish, and arco can't be as percussive as pizz. So these different sonic qualities/possibilities subconsciously affect what I play. Additionally, the added challenge of dealing with the bow can affect what you play (what you hear in your head)because it's just plain harder with the bow. It's similar, in a way, to how what the others in the group affect what you play by what they play.