grrr

[Marc Piane]

I hate it when I am working on some new $*** and my playing seems to get WORSE before it gets better. That is all. Have a pleasant day.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'll see your grrr and raise you an Aaaaaaaahhhhh!. I know exactly what you're talking about. Truth is, though, ya gotta break down before you can build up.

[Phil Rowan]

What Chris said. I think sometimes it's par for the course. This past summer all I did was play jazz gigs and paid little mind at all to practicing serious bow/classical/etc stuff. At the end of the summer I gave it a go to start shedding that stuff again and holy cow, were there tons of cobwebs and rust built up. I found it pretty discouraging but then spoke to a fellow bass player about it and he basically said, yep, thems the breaks.. you just have to barrel through that rust for a little bit (which sucks) and all that built-in muscle memory, etc will come back. Anyway, not sure this relates directly to what you were saying, Marc, but it kinda reminds me of it. Like my teacher always said, let all the mistakes happen and adjust from there.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I'll see your grrr and raise you an Aaaaaaaahhhhh!. I know exactly what you're talking about. Truth is, though, ya gotta break down before you can build up.

Nice.

I was just was getting frustrated shedding between students this morning. I feel like this is a freakin support group but I needed to vent.

I've specifically been working on my phrasing. I got into the habit over the years of plucking EVERYTHING. It's fine but it makes the lines sound like a little series of pelvic thrusts. I've been trying to work more hammer-ons and pull-offs to make it my articulation more legato and horn-like. The problem is a) my brain is so programmed to pluck everything I get tangled up all the time b) since I am playing guts the decay is fast so if I don't hit stuff just right I just fumble and the note dies. I've got a series of exercises, transcriptions, and just plain blowing, etc I've been using to work on it but right now I've not quite been able to seamlessly work it into my playing.

Breath Piane.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Marc Piane

I've specifically been working on my phrasing. I got into the habit over the years of plucking EVERYTHING. It's fine but it makes the lines sound like a little series of pelvic thrusts.

Well, you *are* an Italian, after all. Myself, I'm Irish, and since we're always drunk, we slur everything. Yin and Yang?

I've been trying to work more hammer-ons and pull-offs to make it my articulation more legato and horn-like. The problem is a) my brain is so programmed to pluck everything I get tangled up all the time b) since I am playing guts the decay is fast so if I don't hit stuff just right I just fumble and the note dies. I've got a series of exercises, transcriptions, and just plain blowing, etc I've been using to work on it but right now I've not quite been able to seamlessly work it into my playing.

And of course I'm trying to pendulum swing more over to the McBride "pluck more often like an Italian machine gun" side of things; not because I want to always do this, but because I want to be *able* to do this when the music wants that.

As far as the slurring/hammering thing, I have a lot more trouble doing it standing than sitting, but for me it has to do with coming from "free/vibrato" hand position (as opposed to the Simandl "my hand is already stretched out and positioned with each finger exactly 1.33mm over the half step it's supposed to play in that position" kind of position) where the finger that's about to hammer comes a greater distance with a lot of power/momentum/velocity behind it from the arm, in exactly the same way that driving a nail with a hammer works. You need some distance between the hammer and the nail - not so much that you miss the nail, but enough that you can drive the thing in with one stroke and not sit there tap-tap-tapping at it, which IME never produces a satisfying sound except at pp or p dynamic levels.

Jushhht shhome sshhhtuff to think about, Osshifer...

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Well, you *are* an Italian, after all. Myself, I'm Irish, and since we're always drunk, we slur everything. Yin and Yang?

Maybe that's my problem. I'm 50/50 Italian/Irish.

Nah. Really the issue is more on the conception end. I'm cool playing stuff that is written out or 'planned'. I'm not quite at the point where it just flows. It'll get there.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Marc Piane

Maybe that's my problem. I'm 50/50 Italian/Irish.

Then simply delete the middle two letters of your first name.

"McPiane". Problem solved.

Nah. Really the issue is more on the conception end. I'm cool playing stuff that is written out or 'planned'. I'm not quite at the point where it just flows. It'll get there.

When you make it to town, lets hang and make inappropriate Irish/Italian jokes and play and share our thoughts on this. Vinnie Go Bragh!

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Then simply delete the middle two letters of your first name.

"McPiane". Problem solved.



When you make it to town, lets hang and make inappropriate Irish/Italian jokes and play and share our thoughts on this. Vinnie Go Bragh!

What's this about hitmen in lingerie?

We'll definitely hang and think... and drink.

[Treyzer]

Just wanted to add a few thoughts.

Seems like many of us who play bass have worked hard on playing with a solid time feel, note placement and bass line construction (harmony/theory) which is primarily, The Job. However, soloing, at least for me IMHO, YMMV blah blah, is another animal all together! This fact has been pointed out to me by players who are far more accomplished than me and who I have studied with.

Great horn players, vocalists and guitarists, have a huge vocabulary of bends, slurs, trills, hammer ons, pull offs and so on and so forth. I know Paul would say (and he would be right), that Red Mitchell is probably one of the greatest examples of a bassist soloing like a horn player.

Personally, I've been listening to a lot of Dexter Gordon. His ideas/phrases/solos are always so clear and seem to almost define the bebop language. As bassists, we strive to own the 1 (downbeat). Unlike many bass players, soloists like Dexter vary where they start their phrases in the bar, they play with the time; often playing way behind, yoyoing or maybe displacing phrases, as well as using many other devices. They are certainly playing in time, but not like a bassist who's playing a bass line!

I guess my point is that in order to solo more like a great jazz soloist and less like a bass player, it's a great idea to study great soloists who are not bass players and try to employ a more soloistic vocabulary. Along with Dexter Gordon I've also rediscovered The Ballads record by John Coltrane which is pretty amazing. Of course there are many, many more people to check out or rediscover.

BTW, had a great talk with Marc P. while in Chicago. Chris, I hope to meet both you and Marc at some point!

[Marc Piane]

Nice talking to you too Trey! Hawaii is on my bucket list. My parents were just there and said it was amazing.

I love the Coltrane album with Johnny Hartman. I should definitely transcribe some stuff from there. Great idea.

The big thing right now is getting my brain and my fingers to talk. My conception has been hump, hump, hump for the last 20 years. I shouldn't expect that to change overnight.

Truthfully I've spent so much time focusing on being a solid foundation (time, tone, feel) that my soloing is a bit more one dimensional than I'd like. I'm sure being a rock is why I work regularly in a pretty competitive market but solo ideas are direction I need to grow.


I just finished damaging my hearing with the Rite of Spring. Off to the shed. Happy Monday gats!

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Trey, that would be epic - I hope we get to do it!