How do I sound like an upright bass?

[Bass Doc]

Hi folks,

I am new to Talk Bass and this is my first post.

I need advice and opinions from anyone who would care to offer it.

I have a project that I am working on where I REALLY need an upright bass sound. Unfortunately, I am an electric bass player and due to time, and a chronic arm injury will never be learning upright bass. So I have to have a convincing upright acoustic double bass sound from the electric bass setup I have.

The genere is Bluegrass/folk.

So the question is this: If I need an upright bass sound (as close to an a regular acoustic upright double bass) quickly, what is the best way to approach this?

Here are the tools I have at hand:

-A Precision bass

-An Ashbory Bass (just got it have not really learned it yet)

-a "Mufler" bass bridge muffling pad I bought on E bay

- Available $$ to buy any string set I need for this project - if I knew what to buy (flatwounds? tape wounds? brands?)

-Phil Jones Briefcase amp

-A Fishman preamp

I have never played an upright before. I am not even sure what it is that characterizes the upright sound and makes it different from a regular electric bass?

How would folks here recommend setting my equalizer settings?

Which of the various tools that I have would you use?

Any and all ideas are welcome. I have heard suggestions such as "Cut up Boxer Shorts and stuff them under the strings" and "Use packing peanuts under the strings"

The only suggestions that are not helpful are:
"Get an Upright Player", or
"Just go and learn the Upright Bass"

I have about 2 months to get ready, and money is not a big concern if I need to buy something small to add to my bass rig.

So what would you use in what combination to get close to the acoustic upright sound?

I'm going to post this in all three fourms (Double, Upright Electric, and regular Bass) to see if I can get the creative juices flowing.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff G

[bass_snake]

Hi Jeff,

Goodluck with your project and welcome to TalkBass. When I didn't have an upright bass yet. I used a fretless jazz bass with flat strings and it sounded like an upright to me. I don't know about precision though. Hopefully others can help you.

Fred

[FretGrinder]

I don't mean to be flippant, but wouldn't the ideal place to start be to listen to some recordings and familiarize yourself with the sound you're trying to cop?

If you can't hear the sound in your head, how are you going to know when you've got it?

I'm not an upright player, but if I could afford it, I'd pick up an acoustic (or hollowbody) fretless, ideally w/ a piezo, throw some flats on it and a bridge mute. If I had your gear and no new instrument budget, I'd put flats on the P, mute at the bridge, maybe try to hook the fishman up to it, and EQ for big bottom thump.

I have a fretless 'Ray with TI flats and a bridge piezo. I can get some nice "upright flavoured" tones with it, but people don't play acoustic upright basses as an excuse to buy a bigger car - they do it because the sound is unique to upright basses.

Hope this helps.

[wheelyjoe]

Flats are a good start, though don't get Chromes. And ideally they need to be well worn in.
Use the P and the mufflers. Other than that, it's down to playing right up the fretboard, and studying how upright players phrase things, and little expressive things they do.

This is probably the best DB sounding bass I've heard


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8gynGy8pSg

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by Bass Doc

I'm going to post this in all three fourms (Double, Upright Electric, and regular Bass) to see if I can get the creative juices flowing.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff G

Hi Jeff, and welcome on talkbass.
It's not a good idea to cross-post the same questions at several places.
It's well possible that an admin closes some of them, or merge them, I don't know.

Regards,
François

[Fletcher Lanning]

Sound wise, an upright bass as a much shorter sustain and a quicker decay in comparison to an EB. A lot of the 'mwah' sound comes from not having frets (that would be an essential piece in trying to replicate an upright sound on an EB).

Other than that, you're in a tough spot. A big portion of what makes the upright sound like it does is the physical vibrations of the wood itself, and EB's are just measuing the vibrations of the strings with an electromagnetic field. Possibly try a piezo transducer somewhere on the body of the electric bass (near the bridge possibly?). I'm not sure if it would sound that great but BP100's are cheap enough that it's worth a shot. Maybe you could get a blender preamp and combine the sounds.

Honestly though, if people could get a legit upright sound out of an EB do you think we'd haul this giant things around?

[Nagrom]

Use your Ashbory.

[JR2M]

If you can find yourself a fretless bass with some flatwounds, you'll be in business. Good Luck sir.

[S. Katz]

Originally Posted by Bass Doc

-An Ashbory Bass (just got it have not really learned it yet)


Jeff G

Given your constraints, this is your best bet. I play electric (flats, foam mute, etc . . .) and upright, and my ashbory is closer to the real thing than anything I can do with the slab. (But not that close--you know the rest.)

BTW, if you get one of those mic stand adaptors designed to be mounted on a surface (like a lectern or table), and screw it on to the back of the Ashbory, you can use a mic stand as an EUB stand, holding the Ashbory upright. I've found that holding an Ashbory like an upright helps contribute to the phrasing and feel.)

[MattyBass]

Just play your ash.. it will be alot closer than your regular electric.. : )

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Multiple DB forum threads merged and moved to the proper forum.

[Salty]

A small but effective trick - play with the side of your thumb near the fingerboard

[BassistForHire]

Originally Posted by Nagrom

Use your Ashbory.

+1 You will get a very realistic upright sound, especially if you can play through an Acoustic Image amp. Have plenty of spare strings b/c they break quite easily. Good Luck!

[ethnotime]

A couple of weeks ago I was playing a Rob Allen fretless and it screwed with my head a little: To me it perfectly mimicked the sound of an amplified acoustic bass!?! Slightly compressed but it was pretty good and I bet someone who heard it without seeing it might think it was an upright bass. Anyway I was told that it was the piezo pickup which caused that sound. So given that, maybe you want to look into getting a piezo pickup for your electric (or an electric with a piezo pickup). I don't know if it would work on a Precision and I'm not familiar with the Ashbory but if it is indeed the piezo which caused that sound then I highly recommend it. Of course, this is for AMPLIFIED acoustic bass sound, not the same thing but another choice to consider.

Good luck.

[jmmcc]

Hi, try to use the palm of your right hand to mute the strings near the bridge and play with your thumb.
More pressure = less sustain, Less pressure = more sustain
Play as simple as possible
That will work with any kind of bass or strings without the need of extra gadgets.
You are not going to have "the Sound" when soloed but with the rest of the band playing it will do just fine.
Hope it helps

[Meddle771]

Originally Posted by jmmcc

Hi, try to use the palm of your right hand to mute the strings near the bridge and play with your thumb.

Exactly what I was going to say. Don't spend more money on different strings/mutes/whatever. I'd say use your precision, with the tone knob all the way down (as little high frequencies as possible). Cut mids and highs on an external EQ (amp, mixer, whatever your using). Gut strings are the most traditional for bluegrass, which means a lot of THUMP, very little sustain, and not as much definition in pitch. With a few hours of practicing palm muting and playing with your thumb, you'll be able to get a decent imitation. Good luck!

Also. Listen listen listen. Find some old recordings of the sound your trying to imitate.

[bejoyous]

What James Jamerson and Bob Babbitt did on the old Motown hits was stuff a rectangle of sponge under the strings beside the bridge to shorten the sustain and make the sound more of a thunk, turn down the treble end and pluck near the end of the fingerboard with their thumb resting on the corner of the fingerboard. Also, hook your hand around so the string is plucked more by the fleshy side of your index finger rather than the tip.

[eerbrev]

Originally Posted by bejoyous

What James Jamerson and Bob Babbitt did on the old Motown hits was stuff a rectangle of sponge under the strings beside the bridge to shorten the sustain and make the sound more of a thunk, turn down the treble end and pluck near the end of the fingerboard with their thumb resting on the corner of the fingerboard. Also, hook your hand around so the string is plucked more by the fleshy side of your index finger rather than the tip.

another thing to note is these guys also used flatwounds as mentioned elsewhere on this page. another thing you might try, though I have no experience with them, is La Bella Tapewound electric strings.

i'll see if i can think of more things to help today.

eerbrev

[Bass Doc]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I am sorry violated protocol by cross-posting (this was my first post ever!)

You all seem like a great group of folks and I look forward to being here.

As for my solution, I borrowed a fretless from a friend, and am using the "Mufler" As best as I can hear, I think this is going to work.

Thanks again.

Bass Doc

[sikamikanico]

i had a precision bass with nickel flats (pyramid gold) and had an ok upright sound... at least good enough for what i was aiming at

besides what others mentioned, i'd say having a high action helped me a lot, and having stiff strings... this is why flats work (you can EQ the roundwound strings, but they won't match the feel as good as the flats can)...

also, action will affect the mwah of the fretless (or so I've been told after i sold my fretless cause it had too much mwah for my taste, heh) - high action for less mwah, lower action for more