Keeping The Form

jallenbass · #1 12-09-2008, 09:53 PM

Here's my problem and it mostly occurs in 32 bar AABA tunes. After playing through the form maybe 5 times flawlessly I start forgetting how many A sections I just played and sometimes play too many and sometimes too few. Tonight it was Jeannine so there are no lyrics to help keep my place and we've been playing that tune for close to 10 years now so it's not like I don't know the tune. I'm sure that many of you won't be able to understand how I can screw up something so simple but I do and it's making me crazy. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Treyzer · #2 12-09-2008, 10:11 PM

I feel your pain! First, stop taking drugs (I'M KIDDING)
IMHO that's why Impressions and So What and Jeanine are cool. To paraphrase YOGI, Half of music is 90% mental. The only trick or guides I can offer are these:

Use the B section as a signpost and mentally note that the next A is the end of the tune.
Or after the B section inform your brain that the A section your currently playing ends the tune.

I think not being bored, not taking any musical piece for granted, not relying on other players for cues and/or making sure you fee prepared, focused and ready to play are the most important keys!

Hope this helps. *Please note* I'm not a bass teacher so if any of this sounds wrong don't use it

Trey

jallenbass · #3 12-09-2008, 11:32 PM

Thanks Trey. Using the B section as a signpost is what I was thinking about but wanted to hear what others thought. I don't think that I'm bored etc. I'm into the music but somehow lose track of the repetitions. Maybe not though.

Treyzer · #4 12-10-2008, 01:21 AM

John,

John,

I never meant to imply you were bored. Unfortunately I was speaking from my own experience. There are times, especially over here on Kauai, when I'm playing with guys that maybe aren't playing in an inspiring manner. That's when I have to shake myself out of coasting or getting bored! Sometimes the musical communication is flowing and there's nothing you have to worry about.

I was just suggesting an option for those times when the music, for whatever reason, isn't coming together easily.

All the Best

Paul Warburton · #5 12-10-2008, 03:52 AM

Hey, John. Les' see if we can zero in on your problem areas...If you're like most of us, and Trey put this nicely, the bridge is cool. The second A section shouldn't be a big problem, because it has to contain some changes to get you into the bridge. ( USUALLY )
Now, we're at the root of the problem. Since the first A section and the last A section are USUALLY the same...both resolving back to the tonic, USUALLY. There in, is the meat of the confusion...how to distinguish the first A section from the last one. Obviously this is a big one because you're either starting the form or ending it. One, less easy, trick that works is to get together with the cats before the count off, mainly you and the chordal instrument, and do a quick reharm of the last A section. Sometimes, instead of resolving to the tonic on the last A, you can resolve it to a half tone above the tonic. Then, of course, you have to get right back down to the original tonic on bar one, beat one of the next first A section. That kind of gives a bit of a launching pad to the next chorus, but in the end, leaves no doubt where the hell you are in the form. You can get more creative by just making one change, harmonically, in the last A section to keep you grounded.
I like the fact that you know that knowledge of the lyrics can shed a lot of light on this. Actually, there are lyrics to Jeannine. I worked a bit with Eddie Jefferson who wrote them.
If none of this sounds valuable to you, I guess you're stuck with heavy duty concentration.
Good luck my dear.....

jallenbass · #6 12-10-2008, 07:49 AM

Paul

Great idea on the reharm. I play with these guys all the time so that's definitely going to work. Thanks.

jallenbass · #7 12-10-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treyzer

John,

John,

I never meant to imply you were bored. Unfortunately I was speaking from my own experience. There are times, especially over here on Kauai, when I'm playing with guys that maybe aren't playing in an inspiring manner. That's when I have to shake myself out of coasting or getting bored! Sometimes the musical communication is flowing and there's nothing you have to worry about.

I was just suggesting an option for those times when the music, for whatever reason, isn't coming together easily.

All the Best

Don't worry. I get what you mean. Sometimes it's complacency when everything is going smoothly as well. Other times it's like you're on a great road trip but suddenly you're like "where the hell are we?" Or something like that.

Ed Fuqua · #8 12-10-2008, 08:58 AM

No matter how similar the harmonic and melodic material,the lyrics are always different.

Learn the lyrics.

Sam Sherry · #9 12-10-2008, 09:05 AM

N dabba dabba reeben bah
SO WHAT
N dabba dabba reeben bah-bup
SO WHAT
N dabba dabba reeben bah
SO WHAT
Baray bay be bah-bup
SO WHAT

Ed Fuqua · #10 12-10-2008, 09:08 AM

They say Miles Davis left the stage
SO WHAT
when his solo was all over
SO WHAT
They said that really wasn't cool
SO WHAT
It's not their business....
etc....

Eddie Jefferson.

I still find knowing the lyric useful.

Phil Smith · #11 12-10-2008, 09:19 AM

Sometimes the soloist will stop in odd places like at the end of the B section and the next soloist will come in on the last A section, you then have to figure out whether or not the this soloist is starting from the first A or the last one and you won't know that until 16 bars later.

Phil Smith · #12 12-10-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

They say Miles Davis left the stage
SO WHAT
when his solo was all over
SO WHAT
They said that really wasn't cool
SO WHAT
It's not their business....
etc....

Eddie Jefferson.

I still find knowing the lyric useful.

As well as knowing the tune.

Paul Warburton · #13 12-10-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

No matter how similar the harmonic and melodic material,the lyrics are always different.

Learn the lyrics.

Yeah, god I hate So What anymore. I got to the point in session after session with four horn players in the line, none of which could play ****, that I really didn't care if I did lose the form, which I usually did.
Thanks for reminding me of it, Sam

rdingess · #14 12-10-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

Sometimes the soloist will stop in odd places like at the end of the B section and the next soloist will come in on the last A section, you then have to figure out whether or not the this soloist is starting from the first A or the last one and you won't know that until 16 bars later.