Music without musicians performing live?

longfinger · #1 08-16-2009, 10:23 AM

Hey all,

I'm curious what people think of this article...

http://www.montrealgazette.com/enter...292/story.html

In it, one restaurant owner says, :“It was important to us that music play a part in our restaurant,” says Hughes. “It’s part of our success and a big part of who we are. ..."

His solution? An Ipod with 7000 songs on it, in which he and the staff, and customers too select the songs they want. Customers can plug in their ipods too...

He's not paying for a live band, he's not even paying for a DJ...

Another restaurant owner actually goes the expensive route and hires 3 DJ'sr 4 nights a week... But wait.. he hires DJ's not live musicians...

Oh boy... where's the place for live music? A trio or quartet playing 30 or 40 songs?

Read the full article... I'm curious what other performing musicians think of this.

**Damon Rondeau** · #2 08-16-2009, 10:57 AM

I'll bet he isn't paying a single penny for the privilege of using that music to improve his business. The whole point of the article is for him to brag about how smart he is for using music to better his situation. If he isn't paying for the right to use that music, he's a freeloader. He wants the brand-association of all those excellent musical artists -- I'll bet he considers himself to be a pretty hip guy when it comes to musical taste -- but he doesn't wanna pay.

I think the publicity may wind up back-firing on him.

Maybe I'm wrong and the dude's really paying: I hope so.

bassist1962 · #3 08-16-2009, 11:42 AM

Well, He is downloading from itunes, and I know that costs. It's a cool idea, but I still feel there is nothing like the vibe/atmosphere of live musicians.

Ed Fuqua · #4 08-16-2009, 12:16 PM

He's probably paying ASCAP/BMI/SESAC. Here's my favorite shot, this is a grocery store that promotes and supports organic, small farm, local food etc etc.
But that apparently doesn't extend to local music...

**Damon Rondeau** · #5 08-16-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

He's probably paying ASCAP/BMI/SESAC.

See, that's my paranoid point. My spidey-sense tells me he might not be. I hope I'm wrong.

**Damon Rondeau** · #6 08-16-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist1962

Well, He is downloading from itunes, and I know that costs.

Didn't the story say he was using his own digital library (all itunes and licensed? who knows...) but also allowing customers to link in their own itunes library if he doesn't have their request? When you buy the right to use an itunes recording, you don't buy the right to use it in your restaurant, your football stadium, your feature film, etc... You buy the right to use it yourself, for your own enjoyment, not as a way of making money with it.

bassist1962 · #7 08-16-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

When you buy the right to use an itunes recording, you don't buy the right to use it in your restaurant, your football stadium, your feature film, etc... You buy the right to use it yourself, for your own enjoyment, not as a way of making money with it.

Sorry about that. I guess the piracy issue was lost on me.

longfinger · #8 08-16-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

I'll bet he isn't paying a single penny for the privilege of using that music to improve his business. The whole point of the article is for him to brag about how smart he is for using music to better his situation. If he isn't paying for the right to use that music, he's a freeloader. He wants the brand-association of all those excellent musical artists -- I'll bet he considers himself to be a pretty hip guy when it comes to musical taste -- but he doesn't wanna pay.

I think the publicity may wind up back-firing on him.

Maybe I'm wrong and the dude's really paying: I hope so.

Normally, a commercial establishment pays a yearly fee to SOCAN (or equivalent organization). Then this gets distributed to copyright holders who are members, based on some criteria, perhaps yearly album sales. The money is very likely getting through and I'm sure the place is legit in that regards. All real businesses are.

..
I guess my main thing is that here is someone who puts such a high value on music to shape the emotional states of people in the restaurant, but his idea of music is sound files on a digital player, not flesh and blood humans playing instruments right here, right now, right in front of you.

longfinger · #9 08-16-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

He's probably paying ASCAP/BMI/SESAC. Here's my favorite shot, this is a grocery store that promotes and supports organic, small farm, local food etc etc.
But that apparently doesn't extend to local music...

I can't quite read the sign in the photo... what does it say?

Square Bear · #10 08-16-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfinger

I can't quite read the sign in the photo... what does it say?

i think it says "Turner keyboards has loaned this piano for our American Lung Association wine and cheese tasting benefit... please be courteous while we enjoy this instrument."

if it was graciously loaned for an event, i suppose it would be rude to refuse. still could've offered to rent a pianist for the evening as well though.

anyways, you gotta make a venue these days and make people want to be there. it's not impossible, but it takes a lot of work. people still like to see live musicians perform. for example, people paid $1,300 (or even a lot more when they resold) for VIP tickets to the cancelled london michael jackson concert. whatever, he's an (ex) pop legend and i know that's not the same as local jazz or classical artists, but my point is that many people pay a hell of a lot of money to see live music. the money (even in a bad economy) and the audience looking for live music is there and it's bleeding obvious to me. i don't mean to take this thread to that argument of "well i don't want to water down my artistic expression to get people in the door yada yada yada" which is where i fear this may end up, but i really think that many musicians are successfully bringing in a crowd and artistically expressing themselves as they see fit. if you're in montreal, get this restaurant owner to one of your shows and if you really blow his mind maybe he'll think about what he really wants in his establishment. or not, but sometimes i wonder if the audience is out there and eager but it is us musicians who are hiding from them.

hdiddy · #11 08-17-2009, 08:10 PM

The association fees are the only thing that is going to keep him from doing it. If they aren't charging him yet, he's going to start hearing from them soon. Regardless, if he's making enough money to cover the costs of the association, then nothing will and can stop him from doing it. I think he'll run into real trouble when some anal musician/record company files a lawsuit against him because he's making money off of them without proper compensation, then the game will be over.

Regardless of any legal trouble, if this is what the audience wants, there will be someone out there to deliver it to them. Good for him/them. How does it affect live music? It doesn't really. Going to a restaurant for dj'ed music is no different than going to any other restaurant with non dj'ed music. If the food sucks, noone will bother. And the DJ'ed IPOD run music screams an awful lot like a cheesy gimmick. Eventually it will get old. Catch the wrong time and certain people will be disgruntled by the music. No way I want to hear Bon Jovi while I'm eating. Finally, people come to his restaurant for what purpose? To eat. Once you eat, you're outta there. If you don't leave cuz you enjoy the music, well it affects his business because he can't cram in as many customers. And finally the bottom line: it still ain't live music.

There's no *new* threat here.