New York Guys--tunes?

[Mingus Fingus]

This question is for the guys living in New York...I know there are a few of you out there. I have lived in a couple of different towns and notice that tunes getting called on gigs are different depending where you are. There are certainly a number of factors contributing to this, but I am curious what tunes you find getting called in the city a lot. Still, everyone has their tunes that they like to play, but I am curious about tunes you would say "dont move to NY unless you know them," standards and not so standards. Thanks...looking forward to your feedback.

Adam.

[Ed Fuqua]

I dunno. All of them?

[Mingus Fingus]

point taken, partially. i guess im not looking for a comprehensive list of standards...i realize that to list all of the tunes you know would be massive. and tunes like all the things you are get called everywhere you go. i was more just curious about tunes that get called on a regular basis that might seem less than ordinary, that you find yourself playing a lot. the first post was pretty broad...any suggestions would be helpful though.

[jazzbass72]

I love to play standards, always have... but to be real honest from what I see and hear around me, the focus in New York these days is to play original music, whether it sounds standards-like, or not at all. I am specifically referring to the up-and-coming younger players on the scene who already have strong credentials (Mike Moreno, Marcus Strickland, Jonathan Kreisberg, and the list is endless). They all know their standard tunes, sure enough. Even forward thinking players like Kurt Rosenwinkel have recorded all-standards CDs. But if you came to NYC and hung out with the younger cats who have something new to say, you'd see that the focus is mostly on original music. So... learn whatever tunes you want, but, unless your career ambition is to play for cocktail hour at the Waldorf-Astoria, you may not need them that much these days anymore. And yes, I do love standards tunes... just being realistic about what's going on in 2007 NYC. Standard tunes on gigs are nice as warmup tunes, but after the second tune, I will be itching to play some original music, even if the changes are so advanced that I can barely blow through them. It's a necessary challenge these days I believe.

-MP

[TroyK]

That's actually very encouraging. I see a similar thing out here with the young lions. And some of them are pretty good composers.

But in Seattle, for jam sessions and sitting in and whatnot, there are still standards or at least bop-standards.

A good mix of both pleases me plump.

[Marcus Johnson]

I've never understood the term "standards" anyway. It means something different to every single bandleader you work with, in New York or anywhere else. I think Ed's answer comes closest from that standpoint; the more tunes you can play, the better. I regularly play with young chick singers who consider Norah Jones' music part of the "standard" repertoire. Saxophonists often require you to know all of Wayne Shorter's stuff. Whatever, as long as the check clears.

Everything else is originals, as Marco says. I haven't found it to be any different in any particular geographic area.

[Jeremy Allen]

I didn't live in New York for long and I left there over two years ago, but one thing has struck me: I've never in my life played "Stablemates" so much as when I was there. What's up with that? Just coincidence, maybe, but it was like the one tune everyone seemed to call at sessions.

In Boston when I was there, I had a similar feeling about "Alone Together" and "Beatrice." They were just in the air at that particular time and place, but I had never even come across them before.

[TroyK]

There is something to this. I've lived in 4 cities really and the patterns of calls are different. I've never heard Stablemates or Beatrice called here (but it would be cool). Ceora's big. Nardis, This I Dig of You gets called surprisingly a lot. There are certain people who I can always count on to call Jazz Messenger tunes like Arabia, Crisis, One By One. I wouldn't go to some other town and call Arabia at a jam session.

I aspire to be the kind of musician who can conjure the memory of a song from a record and play the snot out of it whether I know it or not. I think maybe that's what Ed was saying is required to play in New York.

A guy that I play with here, who just got back from 10 years in New York told me that it was different in different parts of the city and circles of musicians. There were groups cliques who play standards, others who play everything in odd time sigs, others who play originals exclusively.

I'm certainly far from ready.

[musicman5string]

Great thread. There's been a couple of similar ones last year. I hope I don't offend anyone this time LOL.

Marco is right about the NY scene and originals. That's what I've seen most people do for the last 8-9 years. However, you go on a gig, play all these originals you rehearsed and practiced for weeks, and then somewhere in the set the leader will call, I dunno, "Along Came Betty" or maybe "Just In Time" and you should see the vibe if you don't know whatever it is they call.......like you don't know the C major scale or something.
Also, there's a contingent of "older" players who would NEVER call a Messengers tune or Wayne Shorter tune; it's ALL about "Standards": I mean "Fly Me To The Moon", "Misty", "Bewitched", "Don't Blame Me", and about 200 other old chestnuts. Again, it's vibe central if you don't know it, or can't "hear it" after half a chorus. Also, all the Ellington repertoire.
But I digress. I think Ed said it best to be honest; the more you know the better. If you can write as well, more the merrier.

Sometime last year I was asked about "The tunes in the real book you should know" by some students at a jazz camp. I spent a night going through the book and decided, for me and my experience anyway, there are probably 160 tunes in "The Real Book" that you "should" know. The other 300 or so...well, I've never had a Michael Gibbs or Carla Bley tune called on me, and as far as the Wayne, Herbie, and Chick tunes, I think those are debatable, depending on who you're playing with.
I'm currently trying to add another 60-70 tunes to the 160 to feel pretty comfortable as far as knowing alot of repertoire, and be flexible enough to do different kinds of gigs.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mingus Fingus]

Lots of good stuff here...thanks for the replies. I am also a believer in what Ed was implying, in that you should know as many tunes as possible...sometimes it is just hard to know which should be prioritized. I can't pick tunes right off a recording immediately, so learning tunes is something I have to budget some time for in my practice schedule.

The amount of original music going on in NY is definitely part of the appeal for me...it's something I wish there was more of on sessions in Baltimore. You might play one or two original tunes in a night of music, be it on a regular gig or session. Jeremy, its funny that you mentioned Alone Together and Beatrice. They are probably two of the tunes in Baltimore that you can ALWAYS count on playing at a gig. Great tunes, but not sure why that is...

[Chrix]

Kind of along the same lines, has anyone here ever played with someone who consistently calls some of the most obscure "standards" you could ever think of? The cat who heads the jazz program here at UIUC knows more tunes then any person I've ever met or played with, and he seems to get off on calling the tunes you've never heard of or probably will never play again. In a way it's great, because I've learned a plethora of new tunes, but now no one at jams ever knows these tunes! How do you guys deal with that?

[Marcus Johnson]

Pianist Barney McClure is kinda like that, in a good way. I just set my ears to "wide open" and hope for the best.

[musicman5string]

Originally Posted by Chrix

Kind of along the same lines, has anyone here ever played with someone who consistently calls some of the most obscure "standards" you could ever think of? The cat who heads the jazz program here at UIUC knows more tunes then any person I've ever met or played with, and he seems to get off on calling the tunes you've never heard of or probably will never play again. In a way it's great, because I've learned a plethora of new tunes, but now no one at jams ever knows these tunes! How do you guys deal with that?

I spent four years in college going through that. Hated every minute of it. I'd spend every minute of my free time learning the tunes guys would call at the last session, busting my ass on them, and then they'd never call them again. But sure enough, next time they'd call every possible Monk tune you could name, even a few that I don't think Monk ever recorded LOL.
It's a constant learning process. John Patitucci recalls a gig with Stan Getz and Stan called "Con Alma" and John didn't know it and said so. Stan replied with "Con Alma. One...two....one, two, three, four..."
Dig?

Then again I know a guitarist who for the last 10 years has called the same 12 tunes at every gig. Which is fine if the gig is yours. But don't expect to work with too many other people with that kind of repertoire.

[Mike Goodbar]

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Then again I know a guitarist who for the last 10 years has called the same 12 tunes at every gig.

Hey! I think I played with that same guy!

I don't know about New York, but after 20+ years of playing, the light bulb has finally come on for me (dim though it may be): it's not so much about learning individual tunes, but training your ears to hear the changes so that you can play any song thats in your head (thank goodness we're not expected to play the melody). Whenever I listen to any kind of music--whether in club, at a concert, driving, whatever--I have a string of roman numerals floating through my brain. Sometimes, I'll jot them down, or just test them out on the piano to see if I'm right.

I routinely play with a piano player who pick out oddball tunes -- we played the Theme from Mannix the other night. A great way to put my ear training into practice.

Seems like most of my practicing these days, unfortunately, is done away from the bass

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodbar

it's not so much about learning individual tunes, but training your ears to hear the changes so that you can play any song thats in your head

That's it right there, GOODBAIT. Keys to the Kingdom.

[RareBear]

Can't really say because there are basically three eras that people request from (not including doo wop) and it depends on the audience. It's all pretty predictable anyway.

Go Giants (and Jets).

[bassdogEmer]

Very interesting thread here. I definitely wondered what the deal was with what you should know in NYC before you moved here. I have been working here for about 6 years and I can tell you that it's really impossible to make a definitive list. Everywhere on the planet people stake a claim to what THEY consider to be standard.
Marco is definitely right about people playing a lot of originals - thank gawd . As far as standards, well you have all the classics like Stella and All the things etc etc... but I often find those tunes called in different keys and time signatures. Last night I played Minority in Eb and in 7/4. So I would say transposing is a really important skill especially for working with singers. I have learned a lot of Wayne Shorter, Joe henderson and Herbie tunes cuz a lot of poeple like to play that literature as well. Pretty much every popular Benny Golson song. Definitely all the Trane tunes like Moment's Notice and Countdown, 26-2 etc. I know 100 times the amount of Monk tunes living in NYC than in San Francisco. Not as much the real book Monk but other songs like; Work, Panonica and Trinkle Tinkle etc. Also ofcourse knowing the right changes to Round Midnight is really kinda important. Oh and Also ofcourse the Parker standards - yardbird, confirmation etc... Also knowing a fair amount of Strayhorn and Duke songs is good.
I have to say though that for the older standards I often can ask for the Key and form of the tune and just learn it on the first chorus and knowing how to do that is probably worth memorizing a zillion standards. I found the best way I got my ear to do this quickly was to learn the melody of every tune I knew or thought I knew! the only other thing thats really important is being really fluent in odd meters like 5/4, 7/4 and 6/4. there are always going to be tunes you dont know and no one should vibe you out for not knowing something - even the most 'standard' of standards.

[jazzbass72]

Originally Posted by bassdogEmer

So I would say transposing is a really important skill especially for working with singers.

+1!

[tzadik]

I agree, very interesting thread. I think each person/bandleader kinda has his/her own standards.

I'd not in nyc but I'll tell you some of my favorites...
Gentle Rain
Witch Hunt
Israel
El Gaucho
Wave

Another guy I play with likes...
26-2
Beatrice
All The Things..
an odd Steve Swallow tune that I can't recall the name of...

And another guy, a pianist, often calls...
Alone Together
Beautiful Love
I Mean You
Hassan's Dream
Nardis

I think people kinda get used to me calling my standards and then when I go play with these other guys, I try to be ready since they have their pet tunes too.

Now a friend of mine just got back from Japan and said that EVERYONE (around where he played) knows the tune Old Folks. (I think I;ve played it ONCE here in the states.) He said that's like our Freddie Freeloader - everyone warms up on it, knows it in a bunch of keys, etc. And the Japanese Real book has lots of the same tunes as the American one but many in different keys...

What IS a standard indeed?

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by tzadik

an odd Steve Swallow tune that I can't recall the name of...

"Falling Grace?"