The next level

[Marc Piane]

There is a really good DVD of the Ari Hoenig Group live at Fat Cat. It is Ari, Pilc, Matt Penman, and a sax player (I forget his name).

http://cdbaby.com/cd/arihoenigdvd

There are some clips from it here

http://www.arihoenig.com/mp3s.htm

[Mike Goodbar]

About 5 years ago, I played a trio gig with two local legends, guitarist Jack Grassel and drummer Ernie Adams. I'd played a few gigs with Jack, but very low key, wallpaper-jazz type things. It was the first time I'd played with Ernie. We were playing on stage in a real jazz club, not in the corner of some hotel banquet hall or country club where I usually play. We played Jack's charts, and they were challenging; lots of odd meters and interesting harmonic movement.

Long story short, I was in waaayyyyy over my head, but I got a couple of brief glimpses past the plateau I'd been on for a few years. Both Jack and Ernie were incredibly generous players, accepting and reacting to whatever feeble ideas I offered up. Ernie's playing is extremely polyrhythmic, but he still was able to play around, across, through or under what I did, but never OVER what I did, if you dig.

I have to say that it was exhillarating and depressing at the same time. Exciting because I knew that with enough work, I might be able to reach that fabled "next level." Depressing because I know that with my commitments, I'll never be able to dedicate that much time to practicing, playing and listening.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodbar

I have to say that it was exhillarating and depressing at the same time. Exciting because I knew that with enough work, I might be able to reach that fabled "next level." Depressing because I know that with my commitments, I'll never be able to dedicate that much time to practicing, playing and listening.

I can dig the sentiment. I've been listening to the recordings of all 6 hours of the JMP gigs, and I honestly don't know how close that level I'll be able to get. One thing is for sure, though: I find myself inspired enough by the experience to put forth the extra effort to at least get closer than i might have otherwise, and to me, that's what it's really about. You can only really go from where you are, anyway. As long as the journey is moving forward, that's all I can really ask.

The amazing thing about JMP and Ari is the extent to which they are able to superimpose things over the original form while still keeping it mentally as a gathering point. The first night, when they would go off on tangents, I would often go with them, and they played so strongly in the superimposed material that I would sometimes lose my place. Because of the R-09 recordings, I was able to listen back and hear this after the first night and adjust for the second two nights, which went much better...and in the process, I learned a ****load of things that i can carry back with me into my regular musical life. I was aware of the principle, but hadn't really realized just how far it could be taken. Those guys have MAD skills!

[Marc Piane]

The thing that I love about playing with great players is every one is unique and gives you a different perspective on things. I'm lucky to be involved in a pretty hip scene here in Chicago. Certainly not New York but there are some great players here. I feel like I am constantly playing with people that change me. Not an epiphany like playing with JMP and Ari but more baby steps.

Once and a while I try to get my a** kicked. I hung out this past weekend with Ben Allison. We had lunch and hung out a bit before his show at the Green Mill. While we were sitting there a guy came up and was asking about how to grow as a player. Ben said something like "you just have to get you a** kicked over and over again."

I hope that someday I can be on Chris' level. I probably would have cried like a lost child on stage playing with JMP and Ari.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

The amazing thing about JMP and Ari is the extent to which they are able to superimpose things over the original form while still keeping it mentally as a gathering point. The first night, when they would go off on tangents, I would often go with them, and they played so strongly in the superimposed material that I would sometimes lose my place.

Try to hang onto the melody at all times. If everybody is hearing the same melody no matter how they are approaching the harmonic material, you all hang together. No matter HOW far out stuff gets, that line (melody) is still in your mind's ear.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Try to hang onto the melody at all times. If everybody is hearing the same melody no matter how they are approaching the harmonic material, you all hang together. No matter HOW far out stuff gets, that line (melody) is still in your mind's ear.

That's exactly what I was doing. It's kind of hard to do when the piano player quotes an entire chorus of "Giant Steps" starting on beat 4 of bar 3 of "Caravan" and the drummer goes with him. But after the first night, I had a short conversation with Jean Michel about the trio concept, and he said that sometimes the best thing to do was to ignore him and stay home. After that, things got a lot easier.

[Aaron Saunders]

he said that sometimes the best thing to do was to ignore him and stay home. After that, things got a lot easier.

Figuring this out saved me from losing all of my hair within a week at school .

[Marcus Johnson]

There's something really satisfying about rumbling along and keeping the bottom together while all manner of chaos is happening around you. As much as it is nice to have solo chops and arco chops and TP chops, I think a solid foundation is probably the thing that most bandleaders appreciate in a bassist. Hanging on to the melody is vital.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

As much as it is nice to have solo chops and arco chops and TP chops, I think a solid foundation is probably the thing that most bandleaders appreciate in a bassist. Hanging on to the melody is vital.

To my knowledge I have never landed a gig because of my solo chops (or lack there of). I attribute the little bit of success I've had to 'rumbling long and keeping the bottom together'.

If folks haven't heard much JMP get one of his live discs. Specifically 'Live at Sweet Basil'. There are two volumes. You'll get a gist of what Chris is talking about. I have trouble following the form as a listener. I can't imagine what being in the thick of it would be like. Maybe easier. I don't know. Either way, the way those guys stretch standards is incredible.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by fingers

To my knowledge I have never landed a gig because of my solo chops (or lack there of). I attribute the little bit of success I've had to 'rumbling long and keeping the bottom together'.

Same here.

I need to check this guy out some more.... maybe I'll do some downloading.

[Marc Piane]

Francois Moutin is on bass on all of the earlier stuff. The most recent trio recording 'Live at the Iridium' has a guy named Thomas Bramerie (sp?) on bass. Also a great player. Not as much flash as Francois but amazing in his own right.

[damonsmith]

For me it seems like this happens pretty often, I have been super fortunate to work with a steady stream of world class musicians that push me. I played with people like Wadada Leo Smith, John Tchichai and Marshall Allen ( Sun Ra) after playing just a few years. I played with Marshall again in Philly a few weeks ago. At 83 he is playing better than ever.

This week, I saw the bass singer Nicholas Isherwood. He did the most amazing concert I had ever seen, solo bass voice doing Berio, Cage, Bussotti and Scelsi. The next night he did a performance with video and electronics that ended with a Kagel Piece that was just mind-blowing.
there is a video of that here:
http://nicholasisherwood.free.fr/kagel_EN.html

He could pretty much do everything I do with bass and more with just his mouth and lungs. His whole approach to music was extremely inspiring.

It made me pull out my scores of the Scelsi double bass pieces and start working on them and I am making good progress. My practice normally consists of older Classical solos, Bach, Vivaldi, Faure, Bottesinni and bass etudes.
While working on the Scelsi scores I realized I simply had to learn them due how they came to me:

A good friend of mine, Mathew Sperry wrote to Joëlle Léandre and asked her for copies of these pieces. Joëlle, being the whimsical person she is said, "I am Done with them" and set him the originals which she most likely got from Scelsi himself.

A few years ago at 35, Mathew was hit by a car and killed. He had actually told his wife that his sheet music should go to me if something happened to him, so I got it all.
So there they sat for a few years. I tried right when I got them but I think it was too much, under the circumstances.
Now I realize I must learn them. They are rigorus but not imposible and I will be a better musician in the process.

[philip sirois]

actually, theyre playing at the 55 bar in the village tonight

http://www.jmpilc.com/itin.php


edit: sorry just JMP and trio, no ari hoenig

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Hanging on to the melody is vital.

This is probably one of the most valuable lessons I've ever had the privilege of learning (and a very recent one at that) about jazz music.

In hindsight it seems so obvious, but all the incredible stuff that gets to happen in jazz sure does distract me!

[bassbuddie]

I just finished the book Effortless mastery from Kenney Werner. A first I was a bit sceptical, but it changed me a lot. Kenny talks about the zone, how to get there and how to get rid of the ego etc.. It is a wonderful book for thos who wants to get at a higher level. I am now a much better player.