Playing in noisy restaurant...

Tibar · #1 12-19-2009, 05:41 PM

Is it possible to screw up your chops playing in a noisy restaurant? I play in this restaurant that can get really noisy to the point of drowning out the bass. I tried using a personal monitor, different pickups and amps to get around this problem but I keep running into a brick wall. Sometimes I can't even hear the notes I'm playing, so my intonation goes off. Other then not playing there, any suggestions on what else to try? BTW - I've played this same gig on electric (slab) bass with no problem.

Jazzdogg · #2 12-19-2009, 06:23 PM

If elevating your speaker so it's pointing directly toward your ears doesn't help, you might want to reexamine your EQ, and the positioning of your speaker relative to walls and other boundries. What kind of pick-up, amp, and cab(s) are you using?

When it comes to EQ, what sounds good when playing solo or in a quiet venue may not sound quite right in a challenging room when accompanied by others. I always try to listen to the frequency balance of all of the instruments being played and EQ my bass so we're not competing for the same sonic space; if my bass sounds a little strange by itself, it doesn't matter to me as long as I can hear myself clearly and it sounds good in the mix.

Good luck! Please let us know what you try, and what works for you.

TroyK · #3 12-19-2009, 07:38 PM

Familiar challenges. Do whatever you can to help your sound. Don't overplay to compenstate, sometimes a lighter touch can actually produce more clear sound and yes, I think you can screw up your chops in bad playing circumstances. You can ABSOLUTELY injure yourself that way. If it can't be fixed (keep trying) and you feel like it adversely effecting your playing, you gotta walk away from that gig. I know it's tough to turn your back on a gig, but from personal experience I'll tell you that at some point, you have to take time off to recover and reconnect with the instrument in a musical way. Don't let it go that far if you can help it.

longfinger · #4 12-19-2009, 08:01 PM

This makes me think of a story told to me by a musical mentor.

Decades ago, a version of Lionel Hampton's small band was playing in a gathering place my teacher was at. All the corporate guys were there at that hour talking about deals, schmoozing, drinking, being loud and making noise. The business guys were not there for the music. This was their hang-out place, and there happened to be music there that night.

The band started playing very quietly, but with great intent and body language to show it. My teacher, could not hear them over the chatter. But the band's focus on playing, their commitment and their air of authority was visible. Gradually, individuals stopped talking and started watching and then listening. After some minutes passed, the business guys were all quiet and actively listening to this jazz band play. The room became quiet, and then only did the band increase their volume.

The band took command of the room.

--

Maybe that story is inappropriate...

--
Definitely have good sound re-enforcement for the room.

What is noisy in the restaurant? Is it the clang-clang of the busy kitchen + waiters, or the yak-yak of customers talking while eating?

Don Higdon · #5 12-19-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

Familiar challenges. Do whatever you can to help your sound. Don't overplay to compenstate, sometimes a lighter touch can actually produce more clear sound and yes, I think you can screw up your chops in bad playing circumstances.

Overplaying doesn't work. The crowd always wins. The more accurate your playing, the louder your sound will be perceived. Do your best, and be professional.

Marc Piane · #6 12-19-2009, 08:35 PM

Eh. The bottom line is there are things you can do that might make a small difference but in the end it is still gonna be pretty hard to hear. Just gotta enjoy it for what it is or stop doing it.

moles · #7 12-19-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfinger

This makes me think of a story told to me by a musical mentor.

Decades ago, a version of Lionel Hampton's small band was playing in a gathering place my teacher was at. All the corporate guys were there at that hour talking about deals, schmoozing, drinking, being loud and making noise. The business guys were not there for the music. This was their hang-out place, and there happened to be music there that night.

The band started playing very quietly, but with great intent and body language to show it. My teacher, could not hear them over the chatter. But the band's focus on playing, their commitment and their air of authority was visible. Gradually, individuals stopped talking and started watching and then listening. After some minutes passed, the business guys were all quiet and actively listening to this jazz band play. The room became quiet, and then only did the band increase their volume.

The band took command of the room.

--

Maybe that story is inappropriate...

--
Definitely have good sound re-enforcement for the room.

What is noisy in the restaurant? Is it the clang-clang of the busy kitchen + waiters, or the yak-yak of customers talking while eating?

Cool story.

Any restaurant gig I've had, the "noise" is usually made up of a combination of the above, plus one or two blenders.

Tibar · #8 12-22-2009, 10:58 AM

Thank you for all the replies...

The noise is mostly customers at the bar, but also the open kitchen and dining patron noise add to the mix. The early part of the gig when it's busy is when it's the most challenging. By the end of the night when business tapers off the sound of the band begins to come back.

I like the story of being able to control the room volume by playing understated. But, after analyzing the room, I think it's never going to get any better.

The band plays inside a solarium (fish bowl). Also halfway across the front there is a perforated metal partition which in about 4 feet high and above that about 2 feet of plexiglass. Then above that an air space. I'm guessing the ceiling height to be about 9-10 feet. Hard laminate floors.

I really wanted to make the acoustic work but with all the difficulties it's not worth the frustration. I feel defeated, but what's the point of playing if I can't hear myself?

Don Higdon · #9 12-22-2009, 11:15 AM

Well, if you're already carrying in a bunch of stuff, maybe bring in the slab for the first 2 sets and switch when things quiet down. It's a shame to blow out your chops when people aren't listening, only to have no chops left when they do.

Eric Hochberg · #10 12-22-2009, 12:24 PM

I've played in a lot of noisy rooms, but I don't think I've ever traded my DB in for slab because I couldn't hear myself. I think that you need to work on your DB sound some more. I can get my DB volume as high as I would use on slab for the jazz/pop/etc. gigs I do, and with loud drummers and guitarists, too.

You wouldn't be using a realist into an AI combo, would you?

Michael Glynn · #11 12-22-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

Overplaying doesn't work. The crowd always wins. The more accurate your playing, the louder your sound will be perceived. Do your best, and be professional.

Yes, indeed. The critical thing is to try to get your band mates to understand this, too. If the drummer starts bashing to try to fight the crowd, it won't make your life any easier. If everyone keeps at a reasonable level, you may at least be able to hear yourself and each other, and hopefully the crowd won't have to shout as loud to hear themselves over your playing and everyone will save their eardrums.

BigOldHarry · #12 12-22-2009, 01:36 PM

Sometimes we're just paid to be there, not to be heard. I'd look into a personal earpiece monitor - I've done those gigs and they can drive you crazy if you can't hear yourself (particularly if you play URB or fretless...)

standupright · #13 12-22-2009, 01:46 PM

one of these should do the trick

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Produc...o_SCL2_content

Don Higdon · #14 12-22-2009, 02:42 PM

Somewhere, I read an article about studies of crowd noise. The essence was that every incremental increase in the volume of the music was quickly offset by the crowd talking louder. You just have to live with it. If you ever played so loudly that they couldn't talk over you, they'd hate you and probably complain.

Paul Warburton · #15 12-22-2009, 02:43 PM

I use a KMD amp stand like this. I place it as close to the back of my bass as possible. I sit on a stool and hunker down with the bass acting as a baffle with the sound going out and around the bass, ambient-like. The amp knobs are right at my left hand's beck and call. I can hear every note I play under any cicumstances I've run into. Including an 18 piece band in a huge, loud hall.

Treyzer · #16 12-22-2009, 05:29 PM

Don't forget, You can always use the blender as part of your percussion ensemble!

P.S. Don't try this on ballads

Marcus Johnson · #17 12-22-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treyzer

P.S. Don't try this on ballads

Unless you're playing at the Knitting Factory.

Jason Sypher · #18 12-22-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

Overplaying doesn't work. The crowd always wins. The more accurate your playing, the louder your sound will be perceived. Do your best, and be professional.

This is it, exactly.

**Eric Swaim** · #19 12-22-2009, 08:52 PM

What type of set up do you have??? Bass, pickup and or mic, amp for bass? Sometimes the right equipment works the trick every time as well as E.Q.ing your rig. I never had a crowd that was so loud I could not hear my bass, but in my early years i had to turn the bass (low frequencies) down and E.Q. the mids and highs. My favorite sound I ever had until this day was my Romanian upright (fully carved) with an Underwood pickup, Fishman Preamp, and an SWR Baby Blue and or my SWR Super Red Head. I loved my tone, the band loved the tone and I always had enough power.

Don't forget, in many situations "the powers that be" (Club Owners) could not give a crap about the volume of the crowd as long as the cash register is singing all night. So you or the band have to be special enough for people to pay attention. Performing in a Jock Strap and a cape might work, but you may also get kicked out before you play the first note. Merry Christmas and Good Luck with the situation.

Fletcher Lanning · #20 12-22-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I use a KMD amp stand like this. I place it as close to the back of my bass as possible. I sit on a stool and hunker down with the bass acting as a baffle with the sound going out and around the bass, ambient-like. The amp knobs are right at my left hand's beck and call. I can hear every note I play under any cicumstances I've run into. Including an 18 piece band in a huge, loud hall.

+1 on amp stands. I asked PW about a recording a bit ago and he mentioned his amp stand. At that point it dawned on me that I don't have ears in my feet (kind of obvious I know...). Now that I have my amp raised and pointed up towards my EARS I can really hear my intonation a lot better when I'm sitting in the middle of a noisy situation.