Putting Music Back Into Culture

[Sklent]

Hi Folks,

I started playing guitar about five years ago and recently I've caught the bug to start playing a bunch more instruments. One of my biggest pet peeves when playing music is listening to people who tell me that they're "just not musically inclined'. While I feel that I have some natural talent, what I do is not really all that sophisticated and I feel most people have given up before they've really gotten a chance. After all, people used to play instruments all the time back in the day!

Of course, that was all before television, MySpace, Facebook and all that garbage. I feel like my mission here on Earth is to show those people, to every extent, their natural music ability. I want to show people who've never even thought of introducing music education in their house what an awesome thing it is, and I want to show people who think they've got what it takes to learn an instrument that they do.

Has anyone else had the same thought? Does anyone have any ideas?

[Bijoux]

OMG! I am already laughing!
Ok, first of all, I think your thread will be moved.
now, this thread will go on and on for a very long time! :-)
that is why I am laughing!
welcome and good luck!

[JtheJazzMan]

What I try to do: get the music out of obscure back-room venues and out into the cafes, streets, uni campuses etc.

Most people arent going to go looking for things they dont know exist......you have to bring music to the people.

I dont care if they dont like it, at least if many people hear it youre contributing something to the world.

Who knows you may touch someones life.

[Ike Harris]

I salute your wanting to go on this journey. Some of the most enjoyable students I've had are adult beginners or those who want to get a little better and just enjoy the process of learning regardless of the level of results. I've had numerous kids and college level students, and it seems like more of a frantic kind of thing in many cases, where the student feels pressured by parents and/or teachers to improve and get into mid-state or some other level of performance, or just a passing fancy to become a rock star. I was fortunate to grow up in an age, the 50's and 60's, where music was in the home and used as after-dinner entertainment, before so much technology has brought us all the numerous choices of distractions to whittle away our time these days. Adults seem to know more of what they want out out of their time here on this planet and I hope you find a way to reach those good souls. As far as ideas, not sure, maybe something to do with continuing education centers or night classes in the community schools, etc. Good luck.

Ike

[Mixmasta J]

IMO, A great deal of the perception of musical inadequacy is linked back to musical education at the primary levels. A large number of students who take lessons on musical instruments at the elementary level (through a school system) tend to quit by the end of their high school career. At this point, usually only the "music majors" who plan on studying in college ever really continue playing their instruments.

I think the problem is that some children excel quicker, just as with everything else, and as a result, their peers feel inadequate. Anyone can work their way up to a high level of playing, but many do not because they do not enjoy playing. People relate lessons and practicing to a preconception, and they do not look at it as a means for enjoyment, just as competition.

Being in a band or orchestra is all certain people know, and as such, they feel like the loss of this opportunity to be in a large ensemble means a loss of music in their lives. I think that this traces its roots to primary lessons. Students must be given more freedom to experiment and improvise at a younger age. Surely, technique must be introduced through repertoire and etudes, but the lack of any free playing and creativity at a young age is stifling to the young mind.

I think that if this was more widely accepted, the idea of music being only for a select few would be generally dismissed.

[mccartneyman]

I'm 60 years old, and my parents seldom had the radio on in our house. My brother's interest in music was limited to jazz, and my sister favored Lawrence Welk and Patty Paige. The only station I could get on my crystal radio played country-western. Yet, somehow, I developed a diverse taste in music. I have to think that it was because when I grew up -- in the 1950s and early 1960s -- television still had a wide range of variety shows, not the least of which was Ed Sullivan's. I was exposed to a number of musical genres by the time I was 10 simply by virtue of hearing it performed every Sunday on Sullivan. Jazz, pop, classical, rock, Broadway, vaudeville -- it was all on Sullivan. I discovered rock 'n' roll about the time the Twist became popular, but by then I had developed an ear for every style of music, so much so that , when I taught myself to play bass in 1965, I already "knew" where chord progressions should go, even if I had no idea how the song went. Granted, three-chord rock was not all that hard to figure out, but when it started to turn a bit nore sophisticated, I had a leg up on my peers. I also have mo credit Looney Tunes for making me at least aware of classical music with things like "The Rabbit of Seville." I don't know that people today get the same exposure. How many people take their kids to both symphony and rock concerts or encourage them to listen to a variety of music? These days I see far too many young people listening only to bands that sound remarkably the same -- and I feel that, as a musician, I'm not just making the same complaint that my dad did (can't tell the Beatles from the Stones). Top 40 radio used to be a lot more diverse as well. Now it's so compartmentalized that you have to listen to an indie station to hear from a single source the breadth of what's available. More than that, I think a broad knowledge of music somehow has fallen out of favor, as has a well-rounded liberal arts education. Too many specialists these days. What happened to the concept of being a "Renaissance Man?"

[Sklent]

Originally Posted by Bijoux

OMG! I am already laughing!
Ok, first of all, I think your thread will be moved.
now, this thread will go on and on for a very long time! :-)
that is why I am laughing!
welcome and good luck!

Sorry guys! The upright bass forum is the only one I've really read so far, I guess I just kinda dumped the thread where I felt at home.

So far, we have a pretty good list of obstacles:

1. The myth that music is only for a "select few."

2. Other, easier (albeit less rewarding) forms of entertainment.

For these two problems, I would stock instruments that are playable from the very first day. The Strumstick is a good example, and I've also seen computer programs that let you play around with chords at the touch of a mouse. Some of these instruments may not allow for very much variation, but when working with students I would show them the extent of what they can do with such simple instruments and then gradually hook them into learning more complicated instruments, such as guitar, piano or bass.

3. The relative obscurity of music.

I think you hit on something there: if we could make the public aware of what actually goes into learning an instrument in a step-by-step process, I think fewer people would be scared. After all, think of all the people going to college right now, or trying to work their way up the corporate ladder: if they didn't have some sort of end-goal or had any idea what the process was going to be like, how many people would really try these things?

4. The disparity in progress between students.

And siblings, also. People are just bound to have different levels of success, but they see it as reflecting on themselves. If I were to have a teaching studio, I would most likely seperate people into groups: more mature folks with slower progress with children with faster progress, and children with slower progress would work with more mature people with faster progress. I think with a significant enough age difference, the whole competition dynamic would be minimal.

5. A "frantic" approach to learning, rather than just enjoying learning for its own sake.

I think the best approach toward these people is to have them teach someone else. From that perspective it's hard to really rush anything unless the other person is of the same mindset. Any students I would have that have slower progress or a more laidback approach to learning would be taught part-time by the "frantic" student. This would hopefully expose the slower student to some of the passion in the frantic student, and the frantic student might alter his thought process accordingly.

[Sklent]

McCartneyMan: I started out only liking certain types of music when I was younger, but after learning guitar I think my tastes expanded to pretty much any form of music. I think the absence of "music in the home" has really limited people to liking stuff that just sounds cool.

Here's my improvised (cheesy) pitch for more music education:

Want to learn music? Been afraid to try? Music has been a part of all cultures for centuries and has only recently fallen out of grace with the general public. Most people pick up an instrument for a day, and when it does not sound exactly like the recordings they've heard, *poof*, they aren't musically inclined!

The truth is, most instruments are awkward at first. Every musician from all walks of life have, at some point, felt the same frustration you do now. How did they get past that and grow into the musicians they are today? Just like everything else in life, if you're attempting something difficult, find a community! Most people who succeed have other people around to reinforce what they are doing and encourage them. How did you learn the English language? There's no more pervasive community around. Imagine trying to learn a new language in your home town. Unless you live in New Orleans, French isn't going to come easily to you.

The point is, learning music isn't something you should try alone. When you find other musicians, whether they be beginners or very advanced, show them the problems you're having. More often than not, there will be a simple answer. You may not like the answer very much, but they will be there to guide you and help you see it through. After what will seem like a short time, you'll even forget you had that issue in the first place---until another budding musician comes up to you asking for help.

...cheesy enough?

[Bijoux]

I remember about ten or twelve years ago, I had my own trio gig for over 6 years 3 times a week! then towards the end we've had to give up a few nights for some guy who would come down with his computer and play music from his computer. That was back when a very cool computer had anywhere between 1 and 2 GB.lol. we were naive enough to think that it wouldn't last!
Today I am lucky enough to play some great music with bandleaders that know how to keep a balance of good high quality music and enough entertainment to keep the audience engaged. I think, and I truly believe that once you engage the audience, you can get away with playing anything you want.
As far as creating more interest in music, and learning and all of that stuff, I am a little at a loss. I being naive again, honestly thought that after Guitar Hero, people would get a little more into music. the amount of time the people spend playing Guitar Hero would be more than enough time for them to learn how to play real guitar!

[Sklent]

Trouble with GuitarHero is: it's about as far-removed from an actual guitar as possible. No barre chords, no finger strength to be built up, you don't even learn to strum right.

I think the solution to this problem is what I've said above: find instruments that teach students as much as possible about music without overburdening them.

This is my first thought:

http://www.strumstick.com/

There was a computer program I came across earlier on this week that had the chords I - vii listed, and for $10 or so you could download it and make your own chord progressions by clicking on the mouse. That seems like a great way to peel back the layers of "I can't do this" and show them that yes, you can make music, you just need to learn the system like I did.

If anyone else has seen this, could you toss me a link? I'm pulling out my hair trying to find it.

Thanks,

-Sklent

[EggyToast]

I love Guitar Hero despite having never played it for the reason that it shows how music is still so much a part of everyday life for most everyone. People playing the game are listening more closely to those songs and enjoying themselves. The music is in the forefront, rather than background. Most every video game has music in it, but the Guitar Hero and Rock Band games are one of the few where the game is the music.

Lots of people aren't interested in actually playing instruments, just like most people who sing karaoke aren't interested in becoming singers. It's fun. And I think that's awesome, that there are activities out there that put the focus on music being fun, that aren't about idol worship (like seeing those same bands in concert) or as background for a "more fun" experience.

I think more people can learn music than give themselves credit, but it takes time and a sense of purpose behind it. It also takes a particular instrument. I don't care about piano, guitar, wind instruments... but double bass is my instrument. When I got one and started learning to play, I realized that it was the instrument I wanted to play all along. Sometimes I even think that it chose me.

My wife's the same way. Played flute in high school, didn't really like it, and didn't play anything for about a 10 year span. Then decided she wanted to learn to play the fiddle, and jumped in. But because she really wanted to play, the act of actually following through was fun and straightforward.


For most people, getting them an instrument is equivalent to buying them a lawnmower, or other tool designed for work. Yes, you're "helping" them, but you're just giving them essentially more work. Not everyone wants to play an instrument, just like not all those who read want to write a book, and not all those who enjoy films want to direct or act.

But music is everywhere in pretty much every culture.

[hdiddy]

About Guitar Hero: Having spent several hours playing it (and it can be fun) and having playing guitar myself, I dare say that there are certain passages during solos that are actually *harder* in GH than in RL. Playing pentatonics on guitar is easy - that must make it seem so much harder on that toy guitar.

Drums on Rock Band by far are the best at simulating the instrument. As much as I complain that it trivialises music, at least it's getting more music into peoples lives in a more direct way other than just a "soundtrack" to life.

[Sklent]

Originally Posted by EggyToast

I love Guitar Hero despite having never played it for the reason that it shows how music is still so much a part of everyday life for most everyone. People playing the game are listening more closely to those songs and enjoying themselves. The music is in the forefront, rather than background. Most every video game has music in it, but the Guitar Hero and Rock Band games are one of the few where the game is the music.
(...)
I think more people can learn music than give themselves credit, but it takes time and a sense of purpose behind it. It also takes a particular instrument. I don't care about piano, guitar, wind instruments... but double bass is my instrument. When I got one and started learning to play, I realized that it was the instrument I wanted to play all along. Sometimes I even think that it chose me.

My wife's the same way. Played flute in high school, didn't really like it, and didn't play anything for about a 10 year span. Then decided she wanted to learn to play the fiddle, and jumped in. But because she really wanted to play, the act of actually following through was fun and straightforward.


For most people, getting them an instrument is equivalent to buying them a lawnmower, or other tool designed for work. Yes, you're "helping" them, but you're just giving them essentially more work. Not everyone wants to play an instrument, just like not all those who read want to write a book, and not all those who enjoy films want to direct or act.

But music is everywhere in pretty much every culture.

Well, I'm not trying to force anything on anyone: I would just like everyone with latent musical ability to see how far they could go with it, then make an informed decision on whether or not they'd like to pursue it. I think a lot of people that say they don't want to learn are simply too intimidated. My aim is to cultivate interest and then nurture it, through building community and through promotion.

Another idea I had this weekend: hosting informal clinics in public areas, dragging in a complete beginner and having them playing an instrument in a matter of minutes.

EggyToast, you've given me my next piece of the puzzle: how do I get people to find their instrument?