Ron Carter

TroyK · #1 05-20-2010, 11:42 AM

I just realized that I'll have a chance to hear Ron Carter live next week with Mulgrew Miller and Russel Malone. I've long lamented the fact that he doesn't seem to get to the NW very often and I can never seem to find him when I'm in NY. I'll bet the next 7 days DRAAAGGGSSS buy at a derg's pace.

(PW- You're absolutely right and I've changed my vernacular.)

Paul Warburton · #2 05-20-2010, 12:29 PM

I can see that, Troika.

I feel much better, thanks.
Have fun.

Mike Goodbar · #3 05-20-2010, 12:47 PM

What? He's going to be playing behind a screen or somethin'?

Paul Warburton · #4 05-20-2010, 01:29 PM

Yeah, we're bumping down my newest brilliant thread under Misc. doing this, you two. Damn kids are killin' me on that I tell ya.
Seriously, I dig Ron. He sat in on my fiver here in Denver many years ago and didn't come off the bandstand whining about not being able to play a fiver and how it maybe got in his way....no apologies, in other words. He just thanked me and said "Man, that's a big one". I dug that.
Give us a report, Troy.

TroyK · #5 05-20-2010, 04:40 PM

I will give a report. I have had trouble really feeling Mr. Carter at times on records. Some of the Joe Henderson recordings and things like "The Real McCoy" are fantastic. I love his playing with Dex in the 70s, but the sound on some of those records was not speaking to me just so. Part of that, I'm sure is just how things tended to be recorded in the 70s. I love all things Gil Scott-Heron, including RCs wicked grooves. There's just something that I can't quite latch onto about his presentation of the bass line.

I used to say similar things about Dave Holland until I heard him live and then things changed for me and I suspect that I'll walk away from next week's show with a much better grasp of what Mr. Carter is all about. And I can't think of a better format to check out a bass player in than drummerless piano trio.

I've also not heard Mulgrew Miller live, but I dig his recordings and Russell Malone is always a treat. Jazz guitar can be hit and miss with me, but he is always very tasteful, interesting and swinging.

I will report back. My normal source for tickets and/or dispensation of some sort can't help me this time. I'm going to actually pay for this show, but it will be well worth it.

**Joshua** · #6 05-20-2010, 07:22 PM

I'd love to hear RC live, I've been a fan for years. Alone Together with Jim Hall is one of my all time faves...

Paul Warburton · #7 05-20-2010, 07:43 PM

Yeah, Joshua...that's my favorite Ron right there.

**Joshua** · #8 05-21-2010, 12:08 PM

My far far better half and I chose "Alone Together" as our wedding song because of that recording.

And I like his playing a lot on Speak No Evil too...

anonymous02282011 · #9 05-21-2010, 12:15 PM

He was on a recording a few years back with the Gotham City Jazz Orchestra (Big band) and he sounded NASTY

TroyK · #10 05-21-2010, 07:28 PM

So, I'm going to his show on Thursday night and I learned at my regular Friday afternoon session that he's doing a master class at the UW (which is about 4 miles from my front door) on Friday next week.

I will be more Ron Carter literate a week from now!

TroyK · #11 05-28-2010, 05:36 PM

So, I heard Mr. Carter's trio last night and had the joy of sitting up close, center at the clinic today. I'm not sure what to say except that, you can look at photos and album covers and listen to records and even read interviews of someone in Downbeat for years and feel like you have a good grasp of them, but you miss the human part.

Not that sitting in a room full of people with them means you know them, but it's much easier for me to understand what he's about now. Invaluable experience, I stick to my rule of never missing a chance to catch one of the greats when I can. I feel like it always helps me listen and understand better, which is what we do, right?

And that said, I feel like practicing....a lot.

**Joshua** · #12 05-30-2010, 09:19 AM

Consider me jealous!

Any pertinent details from the show?

hdiddy · #13 05-30-2010, 10:36 AM

I saw the same tour just days before Troy did. Mulgrew was killing it. Seemed like he was constantly trying to get him into a tough musical situation and had a blast digging himself out. Sounded like he'd take a phrase and kept going in a direction (up or down the scale) as far as possible and by doing so created it's own kind of tension release while staying very musical.

Mr. Carters sense of time and playing with it seems to be there even stronger than ever. BTW: If you get his masterclass from Mike's Masterclasses, there's one snippet where he talks about how to practice working the offbeats to create tension just by using time alone and not notes. It's something he does with his students and uses a metronome for the exercise.

Russell Malone's touch and control of his sound is still impeccable as always.

TroyK · #14 05-30-2010, 01:18 PM

I thought about and decided not to review the show or comment about Mr. Carter's playing other than to say it was a good experience for me and it was. But, after a few days thinking about it.

I love Russell Malone's playing. Though it's my 2nd instrument, guitar is not my favorite jazz instrument, but there are folks who play it to my muse and he is near the top of that list of people working currently. There are a few others, but I really like his style.

I can't remember if I had heard Mulgrew Miller in-person before, but was excited to in this case. This show and the Sonny Rollins show I saw early this month were both at very good Seattle venues, that I've been in many times, but both of these shows had really bad sound. In both cases, the piano was buried in the mix and I really couldn't enjoy Mr. Miller's playing at this show. I'm not sure what was going on, Jazz Alley has a great 9' Steinway and there were no drums so it should have been okay, but it really didn't sit in the mix right. He may have played great, I couldn't really hear him that well, from 15' away, maybe if I had been in the back of the room it would have been better. I'll look forward to seeing him again under other circumstances.

There are some things that I've always admired about Mr. Carter's playing and some things I've never quite been able to connect with. I don't know of anyone who is better at emphasizing or laying off of whatever subdivision of whatever beat he (or the composer) chooses. He has a remarkable command over what he plays and when he plays it. Very inspiring. I did a lot of glissing and doublestopping, which was kind of cool, I don't remember this really being his thing, though I know he was on a lot of CTI records that I haven't hear that much of. He did this in the clinic too and I thought it was cool and inspiring, I was playing yesterday and noticed that influence has already crept in a bit. I don't know if it's something he's into now or something he's been doing for a while. At any rate, there was a lot of that, I think while it's a cool thing to practice and work into my vocabulary, I wouldn't want it to be that big of a part of my playing.

I noticed that he doesn't move the strings that much with his right hand. Lots of people play this way. I remember seeing Ray Brown a few times and being in awe at the 5" that he seemed to move every string on every note, in contrast. I think I try to do the Ray Brown thing, but I'm not Ray Brown and some of my string tension and possibly shoulder pain issues could have to do with that fact. Still, I like feeling like I'm moving the table and I like the sound that comes with that. I think I need to look for middle ground.

Mr Carter had the club provide him backline and he was playing a good local bass. The amp was a GK RB400 and the speaker cab as some SWR 4x10 with a tweeter in the middle. No pre-amp. It sounded exactly like you would think it sounded. I know this is how he has always been and I expected it and for the most part, didn't let it distract me. At the clinic the next day, someone had loaned him a MB150 and the sound was MUCH, MUCH better to my ears. There isn't a bassist in this town who wouldn't have loaned him whatever they had and maybe he ended up with exactly what he wanted, but as a general rule, his sound live and on record is not the one that I find most pleasing. Nothing to do with his playing, it's just amplification. I know we say that the sound is in your hands...but not if you overpower them with a 1/2 stack. But, I hate to even mention it, I got a tremendous amount out of hearing him play and speak and watching him do what he does, it's just my distraction.

Great compositions, I really enjoyed the work of the trio. I wanted to go back and catch another set, but I've had a bit of work of my own and took one night at home with my family.

The other big impression that I left with and the one that will define him to me from here on out (in addition to his playing) is what a gentle, giving and thoroughly hip guy he seems to be. He has a nice way about him that was clear as soon as I saw him and never changed. Different than what reading about him for 20 years led me to expect. He showed an affection for his bandmates and was very...can I use the word "sweet" at the clinic. I could see that he had been asked a lifetime of stupid questions and had a way of shutting them down and not rewarding them, but that's a required skill. He took a lot of time with the better questions and handled the bad ones (and there were some) gracefully.

My question to him at the clinic was about keeping the time in your body. He obviously has amazing time, but he is almost a statue when he plays. No foot tapping or head bobbing. The west coast teachers out here are OBSESSED with forcing you to pat certain ways and lecture about the importance of keeping the time in your body and not on the bass (which I've never liked that much for reasons of my own). He says that he has a stick and uses it to break his students of the habit of foot tapping. His opinion is that over the course of the night your foot gets tired and as it does it has trouble keeping up and your playing of the time follows your foot, if that's what you're using to keep the time. Internal metronome instead. Something for me to practice and consider.

It was a great experience for me. It will all influence my playing in some way and I am very glad that I had the chance to see him. Hopefully I will again. If I'm out of my gig early enough tonight, I may try to catch the end of his last set. And he made a very positive impression on me as a person. I am learning to ignore what I read or think about people I haven't met. Seems like a lesson I would have learned before now, but still with anyone with some degree of celebrity, we trick ourselves into thinking we know them, when in fact, we only know their work.

Roger Davis · #15 05-30-2010, 02:14 PM

Troy

Great review! Just that I'm currently out of love with my MB150.

TroyK · #16 05-30-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Davis

Troy

Great review! Just that I'm currently out of love with my MB150.

yeah, I had one for years and was in and out of love with it as a main amp too. My point really was that he sounded much better to me on an amp intended for DB than on a BG rig.

But more importantly, I would prefer not to have even noticed or thought of his gear. The good for me was his playing and speaking about playing. He has always amplified the way that he does and it's almost part of his thing at this point. Far be it for me to take issue, he's a giant.

My issue for letting it distract me.

Jake deVilliers · #17 05-30-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

I thought about and decided not to review the show or comment about Mr. Carter's playing other than to say it was a good experience for me and it was. But, after a few days thinking about it.

I love Russell Malone's playing. Though it's my 2nd instrument, guitar is not my favorite jazz instrument, but there are folks who play it to my muse and he is near the top of that list of people working currently. There are a few others, but I really like his style.

I can't remember if I had heard Mulgrew Miller in-person before, but was excited to in this case. This show and the Sonny Rollins show I saw early this month were both at very good Seattle venues, that I've been in many times, but both of these shows had really bad sound. In both cases, the piano was buried in the mix and I really couldn't enjoy Mr. Miller's playing at this show. I'm not sure what was going on, Jazz Alley has a great 9' Steinway and there were no drums so it should have been okay, but it really didn't sit in the mix right. He may have played great, I couldn't really hear him that well, from 15' away, maybe if I had been in the back of the room it would have been better. I'll look forward to seeing him again under other circumstances.

There are some things that I've always admired about Mr. Carter's playing and some things I've never quite been able to connect with. I don't know of anyone who is better at emphasizing or laying off of whatever subdivision of whatever beat he (or the composer) chooses. He has a remarkable command over what he plays and when he plays it. Very inspiring. I did a lot of glissing and doublestopping, which was kind of cool, I don't remember this really being his thing, though I know he was on a lot of CTI records that I haven't hear that much of. He did this in the clinic too and I thought it was cool and inspiring, I was playing yesterday and noticed that influence has already crept in a bit. I don't know if it's something he's into now or something he's been doing for a while. At any rate, there was a lot of that, I think while it's a cool thing to practice and work into my vocabulary, I wouldn't want it to be that big of a part of my playing.

I noticed that he doesn't move the strings that much with his right hand. Lots of people play this way. I remember seeing Ray Brown a few times and being in awe at the 5" that he seemed to move every string on every note, in contrast. I think I try to do the Ray Brown thing, but I'm not Ray Brown and some of my string tension and possibly shoulder pain issues could have to do with that fact. Still, I like feeling like I'm moving the table and I like the sound that comes with that. I think I need to look for middle ground.

Mr Carter had the club provide him backline and he was playing a good local bass. The amp was a GK RB400 and the speaker cab as some SWR 4x10 with a tweeter in the middle. No pre-amp. It sounded exactly like you would think it sounded. I know this is how he has always been and I expected it and for the most part, didn't let it distract me. At the clinic the next day, someone had loaned him a MB150 and the sound was MUCH, MUCH better to my ears. There isn't a bassist in this town who wouldn't have loaned him whatever they had and maybe he ended up with exactly what he wanted, but as a general rule, his sound live and on record is not the one that I find most pleasing. Nothing to do with his playing, it's just amplification. I know we say that the sound is in your hands...but not if you overpower them with a 1/2 stack. But, I hate to even mention it, I got a tremendous amount out of hearing him play and speak and watching him do what he does, it's just my distraction.

Great compositions, I really enjoyed the work of the trio. I wanted to go back and catch another set, but I've had a bit of work of my own and took one night at home with my family.

The other big impression that I left with and the one that will define him to me from here on out (in addition to his playing) is what a gentle, giving and thoroughly hip guy he seems to be. He has a nice way about him that was clear as soon as I saw him and never changed. Different than what reading about him for 20 years led me to expect. He showed an affection for his bandmates and was very...can I use the word "sweet" at the clinic. I could see that he had been asked a lifetime of stupid questions and had a way of shutting them down and not rewarding them, but that's a required skill. He took a lot of time with the better questions and handled the bad ones (and there were some) gracefully.

My question to him at the clinic was about keeping the time in your body. He obviously has amazing time, but he is almost a statue when he plays. No foot tapping or head bobbing. The west coast teachers out here are OBSESSED with forcing you to pat certain ways and lecture about the importance of keeping the time in your body and not on the bass (which I've never liked that much for reasons of my own). He says that he has a stick and uses it to break his students of the habit of foot tapping. His opinion is that over the course of the night your foot gets tired and as it does it has trouble keeping up and your playing of the time follows your foot, if that's what you're using to keep the time. Internal metronome instead. Something for me to practice and consider.

It was a great experience for me. It will all influence my playing in some way and I am very glad that I had the chance to see him. Hopefully I will again. If I'm out of my gig early enough tonight, I may try to catch the end of his last set. And he made a very positive impression on me as a person. I am learning to ignore what I read or think about people I haven't met. Seems like a lesson I would have learned before now, but still with anyone with some degree of celebrity, we trick ourselves into thinking we know them, when in fact, we only know their work.

Great review/essay Troy.

Writing like that is why I frequent this Forum. Thanks!

Don Higdon · #18 05-30-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Great review/essay Troy.

Writing like that is why I frequent this Forum. Thanks!

+1
Well written, Troy.

**Joshua** · #19 05-30-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Great review/essay Troy.

Writing like that is why I frequent this Forum. Thanks!

+2!

Ed Fuqua · #20 05-30-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

IIf you get his masterclass from Mike's Masterclasses, there's one snippet where he talks about how to practice working the offbeats to create tension just by using time alone and not notes. It's something he does with his students and uses a metronome for the exercise.

Don't tell Jeff Berlin, according to him jazz musicians never use metronomes.