Sad state of affairs on TBDB

Paul Warburton · #1 10-03-2008, 07:31 PM

Please don't take any of this personally. This is my own opinion.
I've been posting here for a few years, in and out because of personal problems and I understand everybody can't be here all the time, but where the hell is everybody?
I actually considered TBDB my family away from home. There was a vibe of brotherhood, humor, information regarding musical ideas, tips from us old pros as regards to playing in a pro setting, info on jazz tunes and most of all, done with a lot of love and compassion.
I find myself posting with a certain edge because I feel alone out there at times.
Where are all our beloved luthiers? Where's all the color and personality?
I'm 66 now and some of you will attribute my attitude to my old age. I've been around the jazz block a few times as you can see in my profile, but yet I feel very young in musical years.
After some serious set-backs in my personal life , i'm ready to start all over again in my career as a well known jazz bassist.
In this spirit, i'd love to share some of this with you all, as I did in my " Bill Evans Chronicles" with my close friend luthier and fine bassist Bob Branstetter.
I find my excursions into TBDB now energy draining and dry.
Some of my old brothers are still here trying to help put the energy back, but I think we need more.
Please forgive me if you feel i'm just an old cat trying to re-live the past. I don't think so.
Regards, PW

LouisF · #2 10-03-2008, 08:15 PM

Well, I'm 59 and agree with you. I'm a little bored with the "what's the best bass for $1200" threads; and "what's the best string for... (fill in the blank)"; then, too, the 'good old days' of, say, arguing with Ken S over Italian bowmakers got a bit weary too.

Maybe there should be a grumpy old men's thread that has the following sticky: 1) go find your own bass; 2) go try your own strings; 3) make the same mistakes most of did for twenty years, then come back and talk to me; and - finally - 4) let's talk about music and the art/skill/challenge of playing the double bass here.

Bah humbug.

Louis

Paul Warburton · #3 10-03-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

Well, I'm 59 and agree with you. I'm a little bored with the "what's the best bass for $1200" threads; and "what's the best string for... (fill in the blank)"; then, too, the 'good old days' of, say, arguing with Ken S over Italian bowmakers got a bit weary too.

Maybe there should be a grumpy old men's thread that has the following sticky: 1) go find your own bass; 2) go try your own strings; 3) make the same mistakes most of did for twenty years, then come back and talk to me; and - finally - 4) let's talk about music and the art/skill/challenge of playing the double bass here.

Bah humbug.

Louis

Agreed Lois....I miss Ken because of his knowlege about our instrument and his PASSION! This is another element that seems to be missing.
And I don't know if you remember Ray Parker, but he was a solid example of passion for music and for our instrument....
I miss both of these cats in terms of knowledge and friendship.

LouisF · #4 10-03-2008, 08:58 PM

I do remember Ray, although I never met him personally...

We had this same issue on a stage directors' board (that's my day job - I work in film and theatre). It was started by geezers (though we weren't geezers then) who wanted to talk about their profession, challenges/problems, plays, texts etc;

After a while the "youngsters" got on and it was all about "how do I get this job" or does anybody a good designer who'll work for cheap etc;

Most of the geezers drifted away, and now the board is pretty much a jobs bank.

I wonder if we (the ancient and honorable) shouldn't take those "best $1200 bass' threads etc and say - hey, what would you be playing on that $1200 bass; how do you play it; why do you play etc" and try and expand the conversation...

Maybe we'd just get snarled at. Maybe we don't have the patience. But, as Bill Clinton used to say, I feel your pain.

Louis

Rvl · #5 10-03-2008, 09:18 PM

I enjoy coming here to learn
And I do miss the very experienced ex-contributors
As a world community 1)we have people we like 2)ones we dont know yet 3)those we don't like
I look/read the comments of the people in the first 2 categories

But I do look forward to the day when I have more people in the first category than in the last

Keep posting because there are people that like you and appreciate your comments and thoughts

Thanks

Robert VanLane

Treyzer · #6 10-03-2008, 10:07 PM

Paul,

I really hope you hang in there. Your posts are great and they are often very funny.

Although I am rather new to the Forum, I'm an old cat (59 this year) who was a pro in L.A. for many years. 1970-1991Although my focus was primarily studio work, pop, R&B, rock as well as jazz, I never lost my love and desire to be at least a good journeyman jazz bassist! Now, that's all I do, as well as teach economics!

For a long time in L.A. I lived right across from Dantes. I hung out there quite a bit. Could go on and on but you get the picture!

I found this when looking for luthier help. However, this site has become my new hang because, truth be told, I found out that I missed all the interaction and camraderie I had enjoyed while living and working in L.A. (I don't want to live in L.A. anymore, but I do want the fellowship and humor only fellow musicians, who have been there, can understand.

PW, Please don't stop posting... your insights wit and the stripes you've earned make all your posts valuable (and many times entertaining)

Sometimes I see things on this site that I think are ....retarded... but often time I see things that are insipring, insightful and just plain cool... PW..Please keep posting

Aloha nui loa

Trey

txstatebass · #7 10-03-2008, 10:11 PM

Paul and Louis, you guys have made me feel right at home here on TBDB. Though I don't share your age and experience, I feel you. At a ripening 30 years young I'm just now coming into my own sound (i hope) and have finally realized how "right" my dad was. The best part about being 18 is that you already know everything, and you're better than everyone else. The better part of a few years in the REAL world is realizing how dumb you really are. I look forward to both of you posting. There are ears to listen out there.

P.S.
What kind of strings do you use?

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #8 10-03-2008, 10:21 PM

Hey Paul - good to see you're back. I'm only 44, but I know what you mean. I hope some of the old vibe will grow back as well. I look forward to seeing more of your posts.

Paul Warburton · #9 10-03-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txstatebass

P.S.
What kind of strings do you use?

To quote Red Mitchell....I use " One Long String"

Thanks for your input man!

Paul Warburton · #10 10-03-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Hey Paul - good to see you're back. I'm only 44, but I know what you mean. I hope some of the old vibe will grow back as well. I look forward to seeing more of your posts.

Hey Durrl.....when I said OLD brothers I didn't mean in terms of age. I meant that in terms of that time in TBDB history, in which you, of course, were one of our most productive cats.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #11 10-03-2008, 10:43 PM

I remember when Ed and Sam used to be around here all the time, kind of holding down the fort. I miss that, too. I wonder if maybe everybody just got real busy? I know I've been buried the past few years.

**Adrian Cho** · #12 10-03-2008, 10:48 PM

Personally, I just don't have the time nowadays. And sometimes I read and do want to post a contribution but I really don't have time for all the back and forth responses. I also got sick of dealing with and reading a bunch of the egotistical self-indulgent content spouted by some people. Don't get me wrong - there are lots of really great folks here and lots of great content but I have one rule in my offline musical life and that is no egos and no BS so even getting a measure of it somewhere is just not that interesting to me. Yes I know it's all just online posts so I can filter things out, not read, etc. but still it's there. I do enjoy coming back and reading when I can and it's great to see many of the veterans here as well as new folks. Cheers all!

Jason Sypher · #13 10-04-2008, 01:53 AM

I've been around here for a few years and I do recall that, for a time, there were a core group of folks posting regularly. There were some fun threads and a lot of shared knowledge. It was a great time. The focus seemed to be mostly on jazz playing and the jazz cats ruled the roost. Those who didn't really fit the mold were allowed a peripheral good time but they weren't really "in" on the fun. The fun was being on the front porch of the fraternity mocking the freshman. New folks who wandered into TB were summarily made fun of and/or flat out dissed. Occasionally, a New York jazzer with some cred would be welcomed into the group, lavished with praise and rigorously defended when spoken to with any disrespect. Other cool, interesting folks joined in over time, posted and lurked as fit their personalities but they were never given that much energy or consideration (often because they weren't jazz players). Many great players and regular posters (many of whom were passionate at both) eventually tired of the game and lost interest. Passions, opinions and diversity don't always fit neatly within the constraints of an online forum. Although Talkbass has grown and expanded to include topics such as Bluegrass, Classical, and Rockabilly, new forums and supportive communities have been created to better meet the needs of the diversifying world of the bass. There are some great folks here on TB and I continue to learn and be challenged by their music and thoughts on music.

**Adrian Cho** · #14 10-04-2008, 02:39 AM

The interesting thing is that before I joined TB I was on the 2xbasslist. I don't even know if it exists anymore but I remember at one time it was very active and then it just totally died because of the continued actions of a small number of ***holes.

Paul Warburton · #15 10-04-2008, 07:56 AM

Adrian and Jason
Good to see both of you!
Agree or disagree, i've gone back through some of the old threads to try and find any evidence of the things that you mention and couldn't find anything that even comes close to : "the continued actions of a small number of assholes".
I do see alot of involvement with the luthiers which I can't find now.
Also, I don't see folks who were not given that much energy often " because they weren't jazz players ".
You've both helped in your responses to make my point. Thanks for your energy and INVOLVEMENT!

With respect, PW

Uncletoad · #16 10-04-2008, 08:15 AM

Most of the luthiers bailed or layed low from a lot of friction over commercial user disagreements. Inside politics. As often in the net some users join and act with the motive of driving customers to themselves rather than participating for their own amusement or contribution to the greater good. It's hard to see it clearly but they end up screwing up the commercial thing for everyone else. It's a slippery slope and usually the baby goes out with the bathwater when things are moderated to be fair.

Ray got spooked by some personal threats. After he took a break to lay low he realized he didn't need to spend the time. I miss him.

Kenny, well, he has a style that as this website got more cluttered became to abrasive for the room...and he got caught up in the luthier/comercial problem.

I can't speak to much for those that spent more time on here before and are on less now but I know time and life changes for people over the course of 10 years. Nothing much stays the same that long.

There is still a community here. It's different but still good. There is just a lot more racket to sort through, especially as the EB side spills over this way and makes itself annoying.

Good to hear from you Paul. Stick around and we'll make some new noises.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #17 10-04-2008, 08:20 AM

I'm not sure what happened to the Lluthiers in general. I know that a couple of them were frustrated by the site rules, as a lot of people have been. In the beginning, there were very few rules to deal with. As the site grew (on both sides of the board), more and more people saw TB in general as a way to get "something for nothing" in terms of free advertising, so Paul (Determan) had to create a policy to deal with commercial users to keep the site from becoming a place where competing commercial users trumped up what they were selling either directly or by way of shill posting. It was a sad turn, but an inevitable one. If I were not a moderator, I would not have seen some of the things I have seen in terms of the lengths people will go to in using the board to advertise their wares under the guise of forum participation. It seems that $$$ brings out the worst in people - we've seen it on Wall street, and we've seen it here.

In order to close the loopholes for the folks who continually found ways to continue breaking the spirit of the commercial rules while following the letter of them, a lot of people who weren't misbehaving in this sense and likely had no intention to do so were also affected. This was sad, but probably also inevitable. Like you, I hope that some of the old interesting types of discussions will begin to resurface with both old and new members.

Paul Warburton · #18 10-04-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Nothing much stays the same that long.

Good to hear from you Paul. Stick around and we'll make some new noises.

Brilliant Honey! Can I quote you?

You got it....How's the old lady and the kid?
Thanks for the explainations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Lluthiers in general.

Cute, Durrl.
I understand now. Sad.

Uncletoad · #19 10-04-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Brilliant Honey! Can I quote you?

Sure mail my residual check to the shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warmbucktooth

How's the old lady and the kid?

The old lady is still suffering from the bad judgment of staying with me. She has let me out of the doghouse for spending a fortune on an old bass.

Baby V is 18 months old and stupidly cute:

He's developed a love for the DB and the bow. Walks around with a stuffed one and won't let it go. His favorite Baby Einstein show is "The Orchestra" When the bass comes on he jumps around. When the drums come on he goes and bangs his drums and when the piano comes on he goes and bangs on his piano.

Frankly the drum thing has me worried.

Speaking of that, where are the Jason Bambino photos? That rat's the same age.

Heifetzbass · #20 10-04-2008, 09:34 AM

Paul,

I feel you... being in an area where there aren't great bass shops like New York or some other metropolitan areas it is like "virtual bass shopping" when somebody posts pics, etc... If I lived near New York I would have monthly stops by those places.

I too miss the Luthiers, I am an aspiring luthier and miss their helpful insight and "picking their collective brains" for info. It was great to see Arnold, Jeff, NNick, et. al voice their opinions on an open forum.

I understand the need for TBDB to advertise to stay in business, but it has driven a lot of the others out of the room. Too bad... not only did we loose a lot of valuable contributors, but colleagues and friends as well.

I haven't been as active lately, because of work and not having much computer time. I have some interesting projects on the bench and will start some threads about them in the near future, I hope!

Don't leave now Paully Walnuts! Your presence has definitely been missed! We should have a special section of the forum for the 30+ crowd!