Self Teaching?

Peterpimlico · #1 08-06-2007, 12:45 PM

There is no doubt that the best advice given to beginners who wish to learn UDB is to, at least initially, seek a qualified teacher who will advise on, not only the fingering techniques, ect., but the danger one faces inconnection with the bass itself, ie. injuries that a beginner starting out with wrong technique can sustain. This advice has been given out on numerous occasions by highly qualified, knowledgeable members of this forum and still holds good.
However, now that the UDB has reached an 'all time low,' price wise; Chinese UDB can be had for about £350 on UK E-Bay; more and more people are ' having a go,' not with a view to studying the bass from a professional stand point, more to satisfy an interest, or to fill in at gettogethers ect.
So, now to the point of my posting! Is it possible that this group of people, with the aid of good DVDs, (eg. Essential Techniques for Acoustic Bass, Todd Phillips; and many others by various authors); also modern books (The ABC's of Bass. Janice Tucker. Of course again, many others by creditable authors), can learn to play the UDB on a self taught basis? I must of course mention the Forum here, which is also a great help to beginners.
It is NOT possible for all newcomers to the UDB to solicit the help of a teacher for numerous reasons. But with the facilities mentioned above, is it possible to at least keep free of injuries, start off on the right road and most of all, enjoy your Double Bass?
Regards, Peter, U.K.

Marcus Johnson · #2 08-06-2007, 01:02 PM

Tslicebass · #3 08-06-2007, 01:13 PM

I can personally say from expierence that it is a possible. I have never taken a double bass lesson my whole life. I pretty much learned from the evolving bassist and ray browns book and with the help of going to jazz concerts and watching people play. Plus playing along with cd's helped. I now play around 8-10 gigs a month on upright and have recorded and played with some of the heaviest jazz players out here in chicago.
Of course my fretless electric bass playing helped a lot when I was learning. I would argue that there are definetly some similarities between the two when it comes to left hand vibrato and playing in tune.
Of course, in the past year or so I have had to make some very important physical changes in my stance and technique to fight some of the very painful side effects that have developed as a result of my self taught technique.
But that is what music is all about. Identify obstacles and learn how to overcome them.

TroyK · #4 08-06-2007, 04:32 PM

I'm pretty sure the Buddy Holly's bassist didn't study classically. If you want to buy a cheap Chinese bass and fill in at social gatherings and have no aspirations, go for it.

If you aspire to more than that, Get a...(sing along if you know the words...come on, you all know it)

mcnaire2004 · #5 08-06-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterpimlico

There is no doubt that the best advice given to beginners who wish to learn UDB is to, at least initially, seek a qualified teacher who will advise on, not only the fingering techniques, ect., but the danger one faces inconnection with the bass itself, ie. injuries that a beginner starting out with wrong technique can sustain. This advice has been given out on numerous occasions by highly qualified, knowledgeable members of this forum and still holds good.
However, now that the UDB has reached an 'all time low,' price wise; Chinese UDB can be had for about £350 on UK E-Bay; more and more people are ' having a go,' not with a view to studying the bass from a professional stand point, more to satisfy an interest, or to fill in at gettogethers ect.
So, now to the point of my posting! Is it possible that this group of people, with the aid of good DVDs, (eg. Essential Techniques for Acoustic Bass, Todd Phillips; and many others by various authors); also modern books (The ABC's of Bass. Janice Tucker. Of course again, many others by creditable authors), can learn to play the UDB on a self taught basis? I must of course mention the Forum here, which is also a great help to beginners.
It is NOT possible for all newcomers to the UDB to solicit the help of a teacher for numerous reasons. But with the facilities mentioned above, is it possible to at least keep free of injuries, start off on the right road and most of all, enjoy your Double Bass?
Regards, Peter, U.K.

Yes it is possible. But you wont get to a advanced level. Maybe good enough for youth orchestras. (even if you're not a youth).

Also it is called a DOUBLE BASS, not upright double bass.

Marcus Johnson · #6 08-06-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnaire2004

Yes it is possible. But you wont get to a advanced level. Maybe good enough for youth orchestras. (even if you're not a youth).

bassist1962 · #7 08-06-2007, 06:17 PM

Wasn't Danny Thompson mostly self taught?

anon_6j591b0 · #8 08-06-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

If you aspire to more than that, Get a...(sing along if you know the words...come on, you all know it)

Sung to the tune of I Did It My Way?....or maybe Well You Needn't?

Pay yerself $5 an hour to go back and correct all the bad habits you'll acquire without a teacher in just the first year alone and lessons become very economical. A DVD isn't ever gonna evaluate your specific weaknesses or correct something you thought you had together but didn't.

TroyK · #9 08-06-2007, 11:36 PM

It depends your goals. My uncle had a double bass that he played with my other uncles (all good, but not formally educated musicians). My aunt told me once that they used to dip their hands in formaldahyde when they played to keep it numb or from bleeding or something. I don't know if that's true or not or where they would have gotten formaldahyde, but the point was that it's not a pleasurable instrument to dabble in.

Double Bass and Trumpet are two things that in addition to skills and musicianship and technique, you also need conditioning for or your body will flat reject the process.

I'll also say that cheap basses are much harder to get a sound out of than better basses. It you just want something to kind of pass around at the party and can afford it, it'll be fine, but if you think it's something you want to do, spend a little more on at least a properly set up bass and study with someone at least long enough to get good and going.

-tk

Moxie · #10 08-06-2007, 11:58 PM

Can you mention what kind of injuries?

TroyK · #11 08-07-2007, 12:20 AM

What type of injuries can happen?

anon_6j591b0 · #12 08-07-2007, 12:52 AM

Tendinitis and getting the crap kicked outta ya for playing outta tune.

TroyK · #13 08-07-2007, 01:00 AM

NICE!

I've saw someone with a cyst on the back of their hand once.

I've got a weird little thing right now that I'm taking very seriously. Hard to describe, but it's sort of in my shoulder blade, but goes down my arm into my hand. Not good.

I've been talking to people about it and have heard so many stories in the last few weeks about people who had to take 6 months off, a year or or quit altogether. I talked to a classical teacher who got a jazz performance degree, something happened and they had to completely quit for almost a year, came back to classical lessons and now she's strictly a classical player/teacher.

It's very easy to get injured, even with a teacher. When you start playing, things on your body will hurt, fingers will bleed. Some of that is normal, some of it is dangerous. You don't really want to be guessing which is which.

damonsmith · #14 08-07-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

Sung to the tune of I Did It My Way?....or maybe Well You Needn't?

Pay yerself $5 an hour to go back and correct all the bad habits you'll acquire without a teacher in just the first year alone and lessons become very economical. A DVD isn't ever gonna evaluate your specific weaknesses or correct something you thought you had together but didn't.

+1000. Have some great players been self taught? Certainly. Is betting on yourself to be as much of a genius as they are very safe bet? Probably not.

Bruce Lindfield · #15 08-07-2007, 02:42 AM

I think that many people on here have mentioned that it's just a question of how quickly you want to progress.

So - some of the experienced players have said how it can hold you back decades and that once they got to having a regular one-to-one relationship with a teacher, their playing took off at a rate that was unthinkable before.

It's like - do you want to look back in 10 years time and think - I only made the progress I could have done in a year with a teacher?

bassist1962 · #16 08-07-2007, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

Pay yerself $5 an hour to go back and correct all the bad habits you'll acquire without a teacher in just the first year alone and lessons become very economical. A DVD isn't ever gonna evaluate your specific weaknesses or correct something you thought you had together but didn't.

Such as just simply holing the instrument. Let alone any actual playing technique(s) You can look at diagrams, drawings, pictures, DVD's and observe other peopls all you care to, but until you have someone actually evaluate your situation, you could be doing something that is in the long run going to end up hurting you.

drurb · #17 08-07-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

+1000. Have some great players been self taught? Certainly. Is betting on yourself to be as much of a genius as they are very safe bet? Probably not.

+1!!! There are those rare exceptions but those aside, IMO, the books, videos, etc. are no comparison at all to the progress that can be made via one-on-one lessons with a good teacher. Not even close.

drurb · #18 08-07-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tslicebass

...I have never taken a double bass lesson my whole life. ... Of course my fretless electric bass playing helped a lot when I was learning.

Just curious-- did you have formal training for the fretless electric?

Peterpimlico · #19 08-08-2007, 12:50 PM

Gentlemen, please, please re read my posting. The first paragraph of which accepts that formal training (a teacher), is the best way forward to learn the double bass! My point is that MANY people, for MANY reasons can not get to a teacher! Does this mean they should not take up the double bass? Is the double bass a banned instrument if you have not the availability of a teacher? Will you end up a cripple if you have not the specific guidance of a teacher, as has been almost suggested in some postings.
Is it possible? I asked with the modern aids available, or do we say to this group of people, ''No, whatever you do don't take up double bass if you haven't got a teacher.''
Surely in 2007 with all the DVD advice, etc. this group should not be discouraged to the extent of abandoning the idea altogether. Can no one give encouragement and further advice to the lone double bass students?
Regards, Peter, UK.

drurb · #20 08-08-2007, 02:23 PM

Actually, upon re-reading your question and the replies that followed, I think that your question was answered. The consensus seems to be that one can, indeed, learn to play using such instructional aids but that, unless one is a genius:

1) The level you can reach will be limited.

2) It will take much longer to progress to a specific level than it would with a teacher.

3) Bad habits might be formed and might persist.

4) The risk of injury is substantially higher.