The show must go on or the show must be right?

damonsmith · #1 02-03-2013, 01:47 PM

I think this is an interesting topic. I am firmly in the "The Show must be right" camp. If things are negatively different than a presenter told me or the situation obstructs a reasonable presentation of the project as planned, I am not opposed to not playing. Options seem to run strongly one way or the other. Discuss!

Edward G. · #2 02-03-2013, 01:52 PM

The show must go on. If there is a commitment to play on a certain date at a certain time, there is no substitute for doing so. It's like showing up for a flight at the airport. If it takes off without you, your reputation could be disappearing with it.

If the show isn't what you want it to be, work with what you have, and keep on trying to get it perfect, but ALL commitments to play must be met. It's all that makes show business even remotely honorable as a profession.

obimark · #3 02-03-2013, 01:58 PM

Must go on! I have seen perfection be the enemy of the good in too many bands now. Newsflash you could practice for six years and it still won't be perfect. LITTLE mistakes can and will happen EVERY time.
Breaks in songs will be missed, somebody will forget some lyrics, or a solo. It happens, hell every once in a while I even miss a note. Guess what the audience doesn't usually notice most of these things at ALL.
DOn't be a freaking basement superstar/band.

smogg · #4 02-03-2013, 01:58 PM

"If things are negatively different than a presenter told me or the situation obstructs a reasonable presentation of the project as planned..."

Some examples would help.
Say like you get to the gig and the "House provides PA" does not exist and you did not bring any PA 'cause it's suppose to be provided by the house. Then yeah could make it hard for the vocalist(s) to do the show must go on thing.

Edward G. · #5 02-03-2013, 02:02 PM

PS,
If you have misgivings about the commitment, don't make it.

damonsmith · #6 02-03-2013, 05:46 PM

I think it can come down to a difference between artist and entertainer - keep in mind this post is on the double bass side.
If you are hired to entertain, it is professional to entertain the people. I you are hired to present your work an argument can be made that it is professional to present it correctly or not all.

Floyd Eye · #7 02-03-2013, 05:49 PM

If you make a commitment you keep it. The only exception I can think of is if the original agreement is altered by the other party.

bassteban · #8 02-03-2013, 05:49 PM

Go on. As much as it is reasonably within your power, be the guy who makes it happen, or at least NOT the guy who doesn't.

Edward G. · #9 02-03-2013, 06:01 PM

If you want a show to be perfect, write a script and a score. Otherwise you have no chance. You still have to go on, ink or not.

**Stumbo** · #10 02-03-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

If things are negatively different than a presenter told me or the situation obstructs a reasonable presentation of the project as planned....

Told me? Reasonable presentation as planned?

How about a written contract spelling out the details?

Seems to me that what you thought you heard may be different than what the presenter "told you" or vice versa.

It may be that you need to improve your management skills to avoid damage to your reputation.

Good luck.

topo morto · #11 02-03-2013, 06:51 PM

As long as 'going on' isn't going to result in injury or damage, go on.

Nathan Levine · #12 02-03-2013, 08:36 PM

Knowing where Damon may be coming from and the music that he might be presenting could be helpful. Serious contemporary performances can require that things be just so and wrinkles in the previously agreed upon plans can sink the soul of a performance. The truth and beauty of certain musics should not be compromised in any way.

Example. About ten years ago, ICP landed in LA for a gig at the Knitting Factory and there waiting for the esteemed genius that is pianist Misha Mengelberg was an electric piano. The group said hell no and left without playing. Were some LA audience members sorely disappointed? Sure. Was the Knitting Factory's extreme ignorance thinking that an electric piano would suffice at fault? Absolutely.

TroyK · #13 02-03-2013, 10:01 PM

Go on. Almost without exception. When I get into one of those bad situations, I usually blame myself, suck it up and try to make better decisions next time.

Of course, there is a limit out there somewhere, but I can't afford to have musicians and venues start thinking of me as someone who they need to worry about honoring my commitments.

Jazzdogg · #14 02-03-2013, 10:22 PM

I have refused to go on twice since 1968, both times because of safety issues; one electrical, and one rigging.

Without concrete examples from the OP, this thread is pointless.

Roy Vogt · #15 02-03-2013, 10:29 PM

During my tenure with Jerry Reed, he taught me and my fellow band members a great lesson.
We had a pickup date at some Country Bar somewhere and the local PA was sketchy to say the least. We tried and tried but we couldn't get the sound right. Our bandleader apologetically told Jerry about the bad sound and he said, "Boys, you have to remember that for most of the people who have paid their money to be here, what we do is nothing short of a miracle. It's not brain surgery, Son. No one's ever died from it. Let's go out and do the best we can with it."
After working with some Divas (male and female) in my career as a sideman that was refreshing!

two fingers · #16 02-03-2013, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I think it can come down to a difference between artist and entertainer - keep in mind this post is on the double bass side.
If you are hired to entertain, it is professional to entertain the people. I you are hired to present your work an argument can be made that it is professional to present it correctly or not all.

Understanding that there are many differences in the URB world, I would still like to read an example of what would be considered a line in the sand for you as to what would make you not want to perform. I'm not arguing with you at all. I'm genuinely curious. I'm sure (if we're all honest here) we all have those lines we won't cross.

JoeWPgh · #17 02-03-2013, 10:45 PM

"Send your drummer home. I have this nephew who is really talented" Would be one valid reason. Or, "I know what we said we'd pay you, but then we decided against it". But aside from something really outrageous, the show goes on.

Roy Vogt · #18 02-04-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWPgh

"Send your drummer home. I have this nephew who is really talented" Would be one valid reason. Or, "I know what we said we'd pay you, but then we decided against it". But aside from something really outrageous, the show goes on.

Not being paid would be a dealbreaker .

Pilgrim · #19 02-04-2013, 09:08 AM

If there's a safety problem or major financial issue (like not getting paid when you were told you would be), no show. Otherwise, get on with it.

David Kaczorowski · #20 02-04-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I think this is an interesting topic. I am firmly in the "The Show must be right" camp. If things are negatively different than a presenter told me or the situation obstructs a reasonable presentation of the project as planned, I am not opposed to not playing. Options seem to run strongly one way or the other. Discuss!

Is there a contract and are these details outlined in it?

If not, I'd rather be flexible, make the necessary adjustments, and get paid. Of course if money doesn't enter into it, ie. door gig, you could present your work the right way in your living room.