The show must go on or the show must be right?

[JimmyM]

The only thing that would stop a show for me is not getting paid.

[Ed Fuqua]

Bill Crow's got some funny stories, apparently someone in the Woody Herman band of the 60s, took an ax to a club piano so that nobody coming through the club afterward would have to play it, it was so bad.
I remember showing up at a club with a trio -guitar, piano and bass - opening the piano keyboard lid and it was like looking at a hillbilly's smile, cracked and missing keys, keys permanently full depressed etc. Then lifting the lid and seeing a massing of broken strings and hammers. How could the clubowner NOT know that this was the shape his instrument was in AND think that it was perfectly acceptable? Sure we went on as a duo, but demanded full pay. When the owner got a little huffy, the pianist jumped in and said he would play solo sets in between the duo sets. The owner stopped him before he got out of the bridge of the first tune and coughed up the bread.

[Roy Vogt]

In major situations (concerts, Jazz festivals, etc.) there is typically a contract with riders as far as acceptable pay, schedule, sound reinforcement, etc. With casuals it gets a little loosey-goosey, IME. Being flexible is a good idea there.
My favorite rider story: I was working with a major CCM Artist in the early 80s out of Nashville and we sent our contract rider to venues (a lot of churches). We had one nice promoter tell us: "Well, I looked at your rider and I said to myself, 'We just don't have that'."
Tour manager: "And?"
Promoter: "We just don't have that."
Ooops!

[Roy Vogt]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Bill Crow's got some funny stories, apparently someone in the Woody Herman band of the 60s, took an ax to a club piano so that nobody coming through the club afterward would have to play it, it was so bad.
I remember showing up at a club with a trio -guitar, piano and bass - opening the piano keyboard lid and it was like looking at a hillbilly's smile, cracked and missing keys, keys permanently full depressed etc. Then lifting the lid and seeing a massing of broken strings and hammers. How could the clubowner NOT know that this was the shape his instrument was in AND think that it was perfectly acceptable? Sure we went on as a duo, but demanded full pay. When the owner got a little huffy, the pianist jumped in and said he would play solo sets in between the duo sets. The owner stopped him before he got out of the bridge of the first tune and coughed up the bread.

"What's wrong with our piano? We just polished it!"

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

In major situations (concerts, Jazz festivals, etc.) there is typically a contract with riders as far as acceptable pay, schedule, sound reinforcement, etc. With casuals it gets a little loosey-goosey, IME. Being flexible is a good idea there.
My favorite rider story: I was working with a major CCM Artist in the early 80s out of Nashville and we sent our contract rider to venues (a lot of churches). We had one nice promoter tell us: "Well, I looked at your rider and I said to myself, 'We just don't have that'."
Tour manager: "And?"
Promoter: "We just don't have that."
Ooops!

The timing of mentioning that is very important. For example, I'd be a little perturbed if I had flown in already and find this out day of gig. But if they contact you a month out, you can tell them how and where to get that.

Still, I've arrived at gigs to find out they didn't fulfill the rider 100%, mainly manifesting itself as my SVT/810 on my equipment rider turning into some cheap combo that belongs to the promoter's son But nobody will cancel the gig because I didn't get my SVT, so what do you do? As long as the money's there, I'll still do the gig.

[throughthefire]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Still, I've arrived at gigs to find out they didn't fulfill the rider 100%, mainly manifesting itself as my SVT/810 on my equipment rider turning into some cheap combo that belongs to the promoter's son

And if those blue ones are still in the M&M dish, that's it... I'm off!

Seriously, one day I hope to get a gig where we can put a rider in the contract!

We work with most national christian acts coming through SLC, and the riders are very basic - towels, water, dressing rooms, crew to load-in/load-out. We never even need to provide a backline or PA. Nice people, mostly.

I'm in the 'Show must go on' crowd. I once turned up at a small gig and forgot the PA and bass amp; acoustic guitar and vocals only, but the show went on.

[bassfran]

Whether it's DB, EB, EUB, or ABG, doesn't matter- the show must go on.

The only exceptions are life-threatening conditions, i.e. poorly constructed stage, or playing outdoors in a downpour or lightening storm, etc..

+1 to having a signed contract in advance. This can (and should) eliminate many variables.

Perfection is an unattainable illusion.

[Jazz Ad]

If the show always had to be right, Woodstock would never have taken place.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

"What's wrong with our piano? We just polished it!"

We just painted it

[Roy Vogt]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

We just painted it

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

The only thing that would stop a show for me is not getting paid.

Who wouldn't pay you, Jimmy?

[inthevelvet]

Originally Posted by bassfran

Whether it's DB, EB, EUB, or ABG, doesn't matter- the show must go on.

The only exceptions are life-threatening conditions, i.e. poorly constructed stage, or playing outdoors in a downpour or lightening storm, etc..

As long as getting paid is considered life threatening, I agree!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

Who wouldn't pay you, Jimmy?

Fortunately it's rarely happened

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

...

Without concrete examples from the OP, this thread is pointless.

This thread is in excellent company!

I'm enjoying everyone's responses and realize how different our circumstances and context is. For me, I'm a local guy who at times is about 50% my projects vs 50% random calls for things. My context for the original question is sometimes, I agree to something that I realize later I shouldn't have. If what was supposed to be a casual gig for $50 turns into an expectation of multiple rehearsals of standards I already know or something, I try to work it out without being a dick (sometimes I fail on that point). I've suggested other players or offered to step aside at times and I've pushed back on details. Mostly, I go through with it and put those people on my "no in the future" list. My fault for agreeing before I understood, learn from it, get smarter, don't repeat that mistake.

With venues, money is a deal breaker, they honor their commitment and we'll honor ours. I have let them move us or change the time or otherwise futz with us without walking on a booked date, but we either work it out before the next one or don't get involved again.

I've sworn off weddings, but for things like that, if I'm booking I've got a long check list that I go through with them before I agree or quote a price and then we sign a contract.

I wouldn't play my bass outdoors in a hail storm or something. I've never been important enough to have a rider, but if I ever am, I'm going to put some crazy **** in it for sure.

I always honor my commitments to other musicians and the all-sacred date, unless...something extremely dramatic. I was in the hospital once and I lined up a sub...I can't think of another example. I had a front man, inform us all that he was having an artistic crisis and needed to be alone for a while and refused to honor booked gigs. I put something together to cover those dates and stayed friends with, but never worked with said front man again.

[JoeWPgh]

Here's the thing. Assuming good intentions all around, the booker, the bar, venue, whatever have needs that are every bit as valid as the band's needs. So, you work with them, and find a solution that best addresses every one's reasonable needs. This is good business practice. You bend and take some hits in such situations. Other times, you are dealing with obvious crooks and scammers. Here, you stick to your guns, but still look for a way for the show to go on. But, when they want you to ax your drummer to give their nephew a shot? That's unreasonable and a no go. Same as if they forgot to tell you they decided to not pay you. If they're reasonable people in an actual jam, and you help them out? If they're reasonable people they will remember that and reward it.

[damonsmith]

For me it has not happened very often that I have not played, but I have not played until the conditions were right. I guess once there was a tour with a name drummer who got sick, one of the musicians wanted to soldier on, I opted to cancel the tour. Another time a young drummer added a second bassist who couldn't play, so I stepped down. Recently, a space commission chamber compositions for an art installation and did not print the program notes - which told the audience where they needed to be for each piece. I held the music until they did.
A festival booked an acoustic do into loud cocktail bar with no stage, pa or festival staff!! We got a pa. Etc.

I am always fine playing duo if someone in a trio can't make it or whatever. If the young drummer had added a good second bassist I'd have been on board.