The SOUND of the Jazz piano.....

[Paul Warburton]

This is a spin-off of my recent Fred Hersch gig spam......
Fred Hersch Spam.
Fred's in for a two night hit of a Jazz piano duet with our friend Art Lande here in Denver at "Dazzle" a great Jazz venue....in fact the entire week has been dedicated to a two piano duo series.
Art and I are old friends and Fred and I are new friends. We did do one gig together a few years ago but at that time I was so personally involved in playing the music with him that I feel that I missed really appreciating some of the beauty of his playing.
We talked about some of this in another Thread where DURRL, (Forum Administrator Chris Fitzgerald) a fine Jazz pianist, as well as bassist, gave some feed back on the sound a pianist produces from the instrument itself. Listening to two great pianists, at the top of their form (IMO), without other instruments involved gave me some insight into this last night.
We, as bassists, are obviously very into our sounds physically, as are reed players, brass players and drummers.
To my knowledge, Bill Evans was one of the first players to bring the listener into that particular arena of Jazz piano playing. He was well known for the sound, or touch... as some people call it, that he had at the piano. Having had the luck to stand about two feet from his piano keyboard for a three week, six night a week gig gave me a heads up on really hearing the possibilities and, more that that, the intentions of a serious pianist who cares deeply about the sound he/she brings out of the piano.
When one hears two great Jazz pianists on one stage, several things are called to your attention but my lady friend Julia and I might have been in the minority of listeners last night because what caught our attention right away was the difference of personal sound each player had.
I have more to share about this topic, in general, and last nights performance in particular if y'all are interested, so please chime in if you're into it and I'll be back with a kind of review of the whole evening including two ballad medleys of what the cats called "Tag team" trading of favorite ballads. At one point Art chose to play "Darn that dream" but when he got to the bridge, out came the bridge of "Prelude to A Kiss. After the set I told him something like "Man, that was very clever and cool to do". He said"****. I ****** up. I didn't mean to do it. I had Fred's key from the last tune he played in my head and just wandered into that." He said that he should have annonced it as "Darn That Kiss."
BTW, Fred gave us a copy of his new side "Whirl" to be released soon with John Hebert (pronounced A-bear. Don't have that accent mark on my puter) on bass and Eric McPherson playing some wonderful sounds on the drums with mallets and fingers.

[Ed Fuqua]

Tell it now, Unka. Don't stop now.

[Paul Warburton]

I knew I could count on you, Ed. I was gonna say the check's in the mail but how 'bouta kick-back trade on the books I sold to innocent victims?
As we know (or should, less we start sounding like Jazz Critics..... ). there's not a lot of wiggle room when talking about music....that being said, I'll start with attack and tonal decay, pedal use, and left hand punctuaton.
Fred has a splendid attack but I think he's also highly interested in experimenting with how much legato he can provide in his solo work. I noticed this coming up, that almost bending of the notes to try to get a horn-like thing going, on most if not all of his solos.
Art, IMO, (and hey, I really mean that IMO stuff here on all of this) is more percussive in his attack and seems to not allow as much decay in his work. If I had to pick a word for Art's sound it might be broad. If I had to pick a word for Fred's sound I don't think I could. I suppose horn-like would come close, but again trying to talk about sound is a dead end street to people.
Why am I doing this anyway? I'm really ******* stupid.
Anyone else? (not stupid....just any ideas? You might think about some of your favorite Jazz pianists and what you dig about their sounds). Again, big emphasis on SOUND.

EDIT: My bad. Horn-like is two words.

[Ed Fuqua]

Listening to Eddie Costa on that Tal Farlow trio record, I became really aware of the differences in articulation different cats have. You listen to some of those Hampton Hawes trio dates and it's almost like he's bouncing off one note to get to the next one, where EC has such a clean demarcation between notes, no matter the tempo.

But you can really tell the guys who love the sound of the instrument, they're not just playing notes and oh, yeah it happens to be a piano. The line may not be pianistic, but you can tell how much they love the sound, just by the way it's "caressed".

[drew_bassmore]

I am interested in learning more from yours and others' perspective as to the sound of the piano.

Still a jazz neophyte, I have only begun to pay attention to my general impressions of stylistic differences with pianists.

For example, when I heard Cedar Walton perform earlier this year, I was only able to gain an impression that what he was playing was rhythmically hip, but harmonically inside.

When I heard McCoy Tyner perform several years ago, my perceptive skills were virtually non-existent, but I came away with the idea that he plays in a harmonically dense style.

After hearing Brad Mehldau perform a couple of times, I got the idea that his approach was broader in a horizontal way. Less harmony, and more counterpoint- and a bit more space to his rhythmic choices.

If you and others are willing to elaborate on this topic, maybe it could begin to spark an idea of what to listen for in past and present pianists.

Thank you for your time.

[Gornick]

This is a great topic, that is very applicable to the bass, and something I need to re-address.

It isn't what notes these guys play, although that is part of it, but the way they are played. When I first started listening to Bill Evans, it was his touch and sound that grabbed me, along with the groups overalls sound. Later, I started getting into his melodic and harmonic approach. He might play a line where the dynamic arc of the line would swell and decay, trying to paint the picture with volume and not just notes. His left hand might be using a similar approach behind it.


Outside of the jazz realm, Glen Gould comes to mind as someone paying a lot of attention to touch.

[hdiddy]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Listening to Eddie Costa on that Tal Farlow trio record, I became really aware of the differences in articulation different cats have.

Yeah, funny how Eddie Costa is very distinct with his soloing, in a way more so than most people I'd say.

I'd have to say I have a deep love for Count Basie's piano. It's like he barely tickles the piano and leaves tons and tons of space but says more in 8 bars than several Wikipedia entries combined. Elegant would be the world I'd use to describe it.

Which brings to mind my #1 hero: Thelonious Monk. Only recently did realize that half of what he plays is almost like sections of an Orchestra or big band, even during his solos. I think I'm only starting to hear some of the stuff going through his head at times. Ben Riley's Monk Legacy really opened that door for me when they take his solos and play them as a multi-instrument arrangement. Holy crap.

[Paul Warburton]

Since this is looking like it may, in part, be a favorite players in terms of sound. I'll go ahead with some of mine besides Bill....Hank Jones, Ahmad, Mike Wofford, Jimmy Rowles, Wynton, Victor Feldman and Tommy Flanagan.The older guys...Bud, Lennie and Art Tatum. I played alot with Ralph Sutton with that stride thang, but I dug his sound for a more traditional player. Younger guys....Fred, and Hans Groiner (Larry Goldings who, BTW is Fred's cousin, which I didn't know until he told me last night because he and Art played "Ask Me Now" and I remarked that I couldn't help but think of Hans whenever that tune is played any more. (unfortunately ).
Two guys I played a bit with that blew me off the stand in terms of just a heavy sound were Phineas Newborn Jr. and Harold Maybern (who I played with with George Coleman for a few days whose tenor sound was as big as Harold's piano sound).
I've never heard anybody abuse a piano like Bobby Enriquez, though. He sat in at the Vangaurd once when I was there with Richie Cole and broke two strings in two tunes.

[Ed Fuqua]

Mike, the maitre d' at SOFIA'S, always plays the hippest piano trio music in between sets there. It's like a Blindfold Test all night long.

I've heard some really wonderful Jimmy Rowles recordings there.

As far as favorites, the pianist I've probably spent the most time listening to is Red Garland. I know that there's limitations to his playing, and that there's **** that other cats maybe have more control over but his note is just so three dimensional to me - big, round, kinda plummy but not too sweet, if you know what I mean?

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Mike, the maitre d' at SOFIA'S, always plays the hippest piano trio music in between sets there. It's like a Blindfold Test all night long.

I've heard some really wonderful Jimmy Rowles recordings there.

As far as favorites, the pianist I've probably spent the most time listening to is Red Garland. I know that there's limitations to his playing, and that there's **** that other cats maybe have more control over but his note is just so three dimensional to me - big, round, kinda plummy but not too sweet, if you know what I mean?

I do and I meant to include Red's name right after Wynton's in my list.
Ya think Miles might have had a handle on great piano sound?
Look at that....Red, Wynton, Victor, Bill and Herbie just to name the obvious. Plus, Miles always listed Ahmad as a favorite of his. I think we see a pattern?

[hdiddy]

Oh yeah Tommy Flanagan. He has this certain attack to his notes they kinda sparkle in a way. My teach turned me on to Eclypso (w/ George Mraz and Elvin Jones). Some awesome stuff on that one, but I think it may be out of print. I have a video of him playing Fascinating Rhythm with Tal Farlow and Red Mitchell. Friggin awesome. Here's the same trio doing I Hear A Rhapsody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmRVLn5sZSg

[Paul Warburton]

Like Ed, I dig Hampton Hawes very much. Of course, he comes right out of Bud.
Talking about left hand punctuation and comping, Horace Silver gets those rolling effects with his left hand and at times sounds like a big band comping behind the soloists. Sometimes I'll put a side on just to dig his comping and his left hand.

[Paul Warburton]

What Fred and I were talking about the other night is this. Amazing that a player can put his/her personal sound stamp on something this mechanical.

[Tampabass]

Hersch is a genius.

...And since you mentioned a bassist (Chris Fitzgerald) who is also a pianist, I'll bring up another undersung bass/piano doubler, Richard Drexler.

Drexler is a Florida-based musician who often plays upright for Ira Sullivan and Kenny Drew, Jr., and piano for many others. He's released several solo albums and appeared as a sideman on many others.

His latest claim to fame is some terrific work, on piano and bass, on the new trio CD from Jeff Berlin, with drummer Danny Gottlieb. Yeah, I know - Jeff. But it's worth a listen - impressive performances of standards, including "Solar," "Invitation" and "Groovin' High."

[Gornick]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Like Ed, I dig Hampton Hawes very much. Of course, he comes right out of Bud.
Talking about left hand punctuation and comping, Horace Silver gets those rolling effects with his left hand and at times sounds like a big band comping behind the soloists. Sometimes I'll put a side on just to dig his comping and his left hand.

I been re-diggin' Horace. Señor blues, to be precise, and his left hand is amazing. Doubling of the bass parts for extended sections, even solos, and that random noise cluster crash at the bottom of the keyboard. funky. I been there too, listen to just the left!

Him and Monk had crazy left hands going on.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

As I've mentioned before, Fred is one of my great musical influences. I don't have time to post more than a blurb now, but as Ahhhnuld once said: "I'll be back".

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Tampabass

His latest claim to fame is some terrific work, on piano and bass, on the new trio CD from Jeff Berlin, with drummer Danny Gottlieb. Yeah, I know - Jeff. But it's worth a listen - impressive performances of standards, including "Solar," "Invitation" and "Groovin' High."

Admittedly, I have not listened to much of this other than the short excerpts available at CDBaby, but I feel confident in asserting that, in addition to philosophical differences of opinion about the usefulness of metronomes, Jeff and I also disagree as to whether or not a rest IS a note or is THE ABSENCE of a note....

[Paul Warburton]

Okay, you two. Knock it off....you're going OT on my Thread. That ain't allowed.

EDIT: Oops. I just read my Siggy. Awright....go ahead.

[drew_bassmore]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

...going OT on my Thread. That ain't allowed.

We could all sit around and tell Trombone jokes instead.





Truth be told, I love my Trombone playing friends. I had to learn to love them though.

[Marcus Johnson]

I don't know enough about the mechanics of piano to really talk about why Fred Hersch sounds like he does. What I do get from him is a real sense of direction in all of his music. He improvises with seamless clarity and intelligence, without sounding stiff or overly "thinky". His solos seem to spring from the tune's theme very naturally, and they have a lifespan, a curve, that may come from his being a great writer in addition to a great improviser. I never get the sense of someone just "blowing over changes" with Fred. Bill was like that too, of course.