Stats on musicians wanted

[pklima]

Does anybody have any suggestions where I could find some quick and dirty stats on the numbers of musicians wanted vs. available for particular instruments? A musicians wanted website with categories would be ideal. I don't need to see the ads, just get a count for each category. It just needs to be in a language I can navigate... English, Polish or maybe German.

It's an unusual request, I know. I just want to see whether some of the conventional wisdom about nobody needing a trombone player and there always being work for bassoonists is true, and also whether the distribution of female vs. male singers is as unequal as I suspect it is.

[MR PC]

What is conventional wisdom?

[reedo35]

It is wisdom gained from a Convention-
(i.e. I'll never drink tequila again!!!...)

[reedo35]

But seriously, that's an interesting idea, but I cannot even imagine the amount of research that would be required for such a task.

[pklima]

Originally Posted by reedo35

But seriously, that's an interesting idea, but I cannot even imagine the amount of research that would be required for such a task.

Haha, I'm not looking to do research which would stand up to peer review, just check some data I can easily dig up. I'm sure it's out there somewhere...

I found one Polish site with musician wanted ads split up into categories, and sure enough the guitarists available greatly outnumbered the guitarists wanted, whereas for other instruments it was the other way around. Apparently being a keyboardist who's willing to play metal means you'll have your pick of dozens of bands! Unfortunately the site is rock-focused and I'm more interested in orchestral and jazz instruments.

This does have some practical implications. For example, I've got a 13-year-old cousin who plays violin but is interested in DB as well... is violin as fiercely competitive as it seems to be? Is it true that everyone needs a bassist? I don't want to give her bad advice.

But most importantly, this would show whether all those trombone jokes are actually based in truth.

[larry]

You could look in musician union directories and compare the ratios of listings for one instrument vs another.

It's basically a phone book of musicians in a particular area, and a section of it is broken down by instrument. You might see 50 guys listed under guitar, and 10 under bass for example. It would probably represent a reasonable cross section of the community. Sure, not all musicians are in the union, and one local might vary from another - but you get the idea.

You could look up the American Federation of Musicians and see if they are willing to help guide you to the directories for areas you are interested in.

Eidt: Oops, just noticed you are not in the United States. Sorry, not sure how to help.

[EggyToast]

A lot of it depends on the local music scene. Take the total number of venues, multiply by the available positions in those venues based on the number of events, then take that number and, considering the local music scene, you can roughly plot how many spots there would be for each instrument.

Then you need to use a sliding scale based on the difficulty of those instruments. Guitar is easy, so there would be a large surplus of a relatively large portion of the seats.

Trombone is more difficult, but is typically seen in marching bands, perhaps the occasional orchestra or maybe a single jazz band. Difficult instrument but fewer seats means that it's likely at saturation already.

But the local music scene will determine more what instruments are available. Someone who is able to play the violin, but has no local support, will likely stop playing unless they're particularly driven to play music.


Funny story -- my wife got her PhD this fall and, stuck with no job, is staying on as a post-doc in her lab. However, she has a lot more free time, and realized that she needs a hobby that uses her brain in a creative way but doesn't require the purchase of new materials, like a craft (so no sewing or furniture making, her current hobbies). She realized she always wanted to learn to fiddle, so she bought a violin (pretty nice one thanks to eBay) and has been taking lessons for about 2 weeks now.

She has, of course, mentioned this to other people in her lab, and her friends, and suddenly her friends are a lot more interested in music. "Hey I've got a trumpet, I haven't played in a while but I should really get back into it, it was a lot of fun." And "I played violin for years, but stopped because I was bored. But you know, I have always wanted to learn to fiddle. Maybe I should pick it up again..."

She's motivated in an instrument and it's motivating others around her. And these aren't easy like guitar, although the advantage to violin and trumpet is that they are useful to multiple kinds of music. One of the advantages to the bass is that it's used prominently in many kinds of music, unlike the sad Viola.

But I like her story (which is very current -- the violinist who is considering fiddling too just brought it up with her today) because it's an example of how a good local scene can change what instruments are "available." If the local scene is punk, then it's all cheap guitars, cheap drums, and bass guitar. If the local scene is bluegrass, it's all double bass, mandolin, banjo, violin -- a far cry from the electrified punk scene!

I would imagine a bassoonist is relatively stuck looking for orchestras, though -- much like the sad violist.

[bobalew]

I would urge you to be careful to remove any references to bagpipes from the data you gather. Those guys hire each other just to prop up their statistics ...

[pklima]

Originally Posted by larry

You could look in musician union directories and compare the ratios of listings for one instrument vs another.

Good idea. My parents do live in the States now. Data local to me would be better, of course, but even data from somewhere as distant as Singapore would serve to satisfy some of my curiosity.

Originally Posted by EggyToast

She has, of course, mentioned this to other people in her lab, and her friends, and suddenly her friends are a lot more interested in music. "Hey I've got a trumpet, I haven't played in a while but I should really get back into it, it was a lot of fun." And "I played violin for years, but stopped because I was bored. But you know, I have always wanted to learn to fiddle. Maybe I should pick it up again..."

On a random note, I found the flautist who played in one of my bands by scanning some sheet music at a research lab where I was working. She asked me what it was for and then asked if she can join.

[MR PC]

Originally Posted by reedo35

It is wisdom gained from a Convention-
(i.e. I'll never drink tequila again!!!...)

Oh, I guess that those Large Group Awareness Training Conventions are still popular in Colorado. What do you do though, after you drink all that Tequilla and the group leader tells you you can't use the restroom to take a whiz.....I guess all that wisdom would end up on the Convention floor.

Seriously, I guess the term "conventional wisdom" is really an oxymoron.

[MR PC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_wisdom

[pklima]

I found some US data from a "Find a musician" site. Again, it's mostly a rock/pop site, but at least it includes more instruments.

I think the "wanted" data is somewhat inflated. The nature of the site is such that it asks you what instruments you are looking for when you register, which I suspect encourages people to put everything they might ever possibly want. But the differences between the various categories are still meaningful, I think.

The basic outcome seems to be "don't be a guitarist". I was somewhat surprised to find that bassists have it better than drummers. We have not found support for the "trombone jokes are all true" hypothesis, however.

US data:

Wanted:
Vocals:
Backing Vocalist 92
Lead Vocalist 115
Basses:
Bass Guitarist 158
Double Bassist 16
Drums:
Drummer 143
Percussionist 44
Guitars:
12 String Guitarist 34
Acoustic Guitarist 69
Lead Guitarist 145
Rhythm Guitarist 104
Keys:
Accordion Player 3
Keyboard Player 114
Pianist 75
Organist 8
Winds:
Bassoonist 3
Clarinetist 8
Saxophonist 38
Oboist 4
Flautist 16
Harmonica Player 24
Brass:
French Horn Player 3
Trombonist 17
Trumpet Player 25
Tuba Player 2
Strings:
Cellist 26
Violist 6
Violinist 41
Misc:
Composer 28
DJ 22
Song Writer 66
Teacher 5

Available:
Vocals:
Backing Vocalist 90
Lead Vocalist 103
Basses:
Bass Guitarist 53
Double Bassist 5
Drums:
Drummer 62
Percussionist 31
Guitars:
12 String Guitarist 19
Acoustic Guitarist 79
Lead Guitarist 62
Rhythm Guitarist 102
Keys:
Accordion Player 3
Keyboard Player 38
Pianist 35
Organist 4
Winds:
Bassoonist 0
Clarinetist 6
Saxophonist 14
Oboist 1
Flautist 8
Harmonica Player 17
Brass:
French Horn Player 1
Trombonist 4
Trumpet Player 10
Tuba Player 4
Strings:
Cellist 3
Violist 1
Violinist 10
Misc:
Composer 31
DJ 1
Song Writer 75
Teacher 14


Also some Finnish data someone sent me from one of their national sites:

Wanted
Bassist 192 68
Guitarist 106 189
Keyboardist 109 29
Vocalist 238 193
Drummer 192 114
Available
Bassist 68
Guitarist 189
Keyboardist 29
Vocalist 193
Drummer 192 114

I'll see if I can dig up some more. Call me a corporate bean-counter, but I find stuff like this interesting.

Eh, sorry about my inabilty to make legible tables...

[MR PC]

Yes, counting beans or the number of strands in a tapestry can bring a sense of security in the moment. But while busy counting, ya' all might miss a real life event that brings the house down around you.

I'm glad that you are including us all in your experiment.