Survey: Scale in your town?

[TroyK]

I was visiting another city last weekend and caught a few jazz gigs. The musician I was traveling with said "I wish it wasn't so inappropriate to ask people what they were getting paid." His intent was understanding the market and how it compared to Seattle, rather than just being nosy.

I immediately thought, that's one of many things that Talkbass is for.

I'd like to know generally, although I'm sure there's a range, what scale is in your town for a garden variety restaurant/bar jazz gig. In Seattle we seem to be hovering at around $50/man. Some types of gigs are obviously more and, although it's not cool, some gigs pay less. We run into problems with the "per man" model when we try to bring bigger groups in because the venue, understandably, doesn't see the connection between their cost and our expenses.

Some clubs, of course, have some type of % of the bar or door model. Some evil clubs that we refuse to play at, want musicians to pay their door and sound guy guarantees that outweigh a reasonable expectation of a haul for the band. But, we solve that by not playing at those places until they miss us and repent.

What is it in your town? Please indicate for what type of gig in your response. I know that some of you guys are playing Broadway theatre gigs and some of you are backing folk singers in Kansas. I want to compare apples to apples as much as possible.

Troy

[musicman5string]

In NJ, it's $100 a man for duo or trio depending on the place. In NY it's either a little lower or sometimes a little higher, but not by much. It all depends on the gig. There are several clubs in NYC that pay a % of the door (Detour, Rodeo Bar, 55 Bar), which means a quintet makes $10 each guy (or gal). I've tried to stop doing those gigs.
Average set time is a four hour gig (8-12 or 9-1) and usually is broken up into 3 sets, first set 1 hour, then a 20-30 min. break, then a 1 hour set, then a 30 min break, then another hour set.
Weddings, bar mitzvahs, coktail hours, company parties, etc. pay much more.

[Bodin]

One of the jazz clubs in Austin where I used to play would pay $300 total per gig for about 4 hours. We played on Wednesdays and there wasn't a cover, but on Fri and Sat night they would charge a cover for the band, so I'm assuming those guys got more on the weekends - but I don't know how much because we never got booked for a weekend headliner

[Kam]

The jazz quartet (sometimes trio) I'm in plays a couple restaurants in Minneapolis, typically 3 seperate hour-long sets w/ 30min breaks.

The scale I've been seeing has been about $250/group on weekdays and $300-400/group on weekends. I would say it averages out to about $75/person for those types of restaurant gigs..

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I quit the union here years ago for reasons I won't go into, so when I saw the word "scale" I wasn't going to reply. After reading, I think it's more of a "what do gigs pay in yer neck of the woods" kinda thing. The cheapest gig I do here only pays $50 a man, but it's a duo in a nice upscale-ish eatery, we get fed some really killing ****, and the gig is with Craig Wagner, a great player and good bud with whom I would probably play for free most nights. The gigs at the factory pay anywhere from $75 to $150 a man, depending on the night and the number of players. Casuals pay anywhere from $100-$300 a man, usually toward the lower side.

[oliebrice]

In SW England, it seems to be about £30-£50 each for 'jazz clubs', £70ish each for functions, £100ish each for wedding and corporate scum!

[christ andronis]

Here in Chicago, depending of course on the venue (and the leader), I average about $225.00 for jobbing (3 hour gig not including overtime) and about $150.00 (or less) for jazz type duos and trios. Did a bluegrass gig over the summer (actually swing, folk and bluegrass). It was a blast, got out of Chicago into the country for an afternoon, ate lots of good BBQ (don't tell my wife!!) and got paid a whole $100.00 for the 3 hour gig!!! Now that's livin'!!!

[musicman5string]

I got paid $600 to play 45 minutes on New Year's Eve 1999-2000.

[M Ramsey]

I'm playing a corporate gig in my town tonight, about 10 minutes from my bed.

Four musicians, we'll setup a modified PA, (3 large diaphram condensers, one kick drum mic on my amp) eat food by the best caterer in the land, play four 45 minute sets and make $300 apiece and then put $300 in the bank for further travel and expenses in the future.

Tomorrow night, 20 miles up the road, another private party, two 45 minute sets, NO PA, and make $160 apiece (same 4 musicians, we're a band) and put another $160 in the bank.

Most of our gigs average about $200 per member.

We are a democratic band (equal votes, no politics) and if the gig dosen't pay decent, we don't play. If I'm going to play for free, it will be on my own terms, like when I travel to Nashville next weekend and play with some of the members of Alison Krauss' band at a house picking party.

I guess the best we ever did (so far) was to travel to Harlan, KY, play two 45 minute sets, get put up in a decent hotel on the night prior to the gig and the night after, and make $2000. We were about 4 hours from the house.

Now if we could have just had meals included...

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Scab FitzLabor

I quit the union here years ago for reasons I won't go into, so when I saw the word "scale" I wasn't going to reply. After reading, I think it's more of a "what do gigs pay in yer neck of the woods" kinda thing.

Yeah, I was throwing the word "scale" around milli vanilly. I just meant, "what does jazz seem to pay in various spots around the globe?"

Interesting responses. I don't get booked at the top jazz clubs here often enough to get a feel for what they pay, although there are people I could probably ask. For weddings, corporate parties and New Years Eve, ceratainly the pay goes up. In my experience $150-350/seat depending on time, expectations and the negotiation ability of the booker. I've gotten more on the odd occasion, but it's usually in that range. I know there are people who work for less because I've referred some things out when the money wasn't right and other people have taken them.

But, we seem to be kind of stuck (at least in my immediate circles) at about $50 a man for the weekly bar/resturant gig. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.

I wanted to survey for a couple of reasons; 1) I was sort of offered a gig in San Francisco and wasn't sure how pay there lined up with Seattle and 2) I've noticed some really good local guys playing at some places that I know don't pay up to what I consider "scale" here and I've been trying to figure out what that was about.

There is a musicians' union in Seattle, but no one I know has belonged to it for more than 6 months and there aren't union clubs. Maybe the symphony guys belong, I'm not sure. It doesn't regulate jazz in Seattle, though, which is alright with me.

Thanks for the replies, keep um coming.

Troy

[Mike Goodbar]

I live down in the southeast corner of Wisconsin and play in and around the cities of Racine and Kenosha. I'm playing a trio tomorrow night (jazz), that will pay $225 ($75 per man). That's pretty much the norm in the half-dozen or so joints that have jazz on a more-or-less regular basis. I often get call to play in pit orchs for high school and amateur musicals, and that averages around $50 per service.

Though I rarely get invited to play with the "big boys" up in Milwaukee, I often hear that their pay on average is lower than down here in the backwater. The "premier" jazz club there, I understand, pays $200 for a quartet.

However, I inquired of a friend who moved to New York how much he makes for his quartet there. He just shook his head and said they usually end up passing the hat. I guess just playing in New York is enough of a priviledge, eh?

[Uncletoad]

Great question.

At the moment my regular Monday gig pays $100 a man, My regular Thursday gig pays $75 a man plus a $25 eats tab (great food). Tonight is a one off for $100. Most club nights are $100. Nicer food places like sunday brunch is $150 a man. I did sporadic apartment complex pool parties this summer for $150 a man. Corporates and Weddings start at $300 a man and go up depending on travel and details.

Production costs if required go on top of that. Often the leader will take a cut and a half or two cuts.

The musician union here will tell you different but they can hug a root. In the 25 years I've played here they've stood up for me exactly never times. Another topic.

I'll take a $50 gig during the week if I have to but if it sucks I won't do it twice. If you call me for less than $50 I better be getting something else good or I'll pass out phone numbers.

Whats most interesting is I was making exactly the same money in 1980. So I've taken a gigantic pay cut over the last 25 years.

Hence the need for a steady day job.

[TroyK]

So, I hope to get a lot more responses, but is it an early trend that smaller markets are paying more than larger markets?

[bigcello]

I live just outside of Los Angeles...A guitarist friend of mine and I have gotten paid $100/hr each for doing several weddings and the like...

[bigcello]

As far as restaurants, though, I think the pay is a little lower... I haven't played many of those gigs, but I think its around $75/hr each for a duo/trio...no guarantees on that though...sorry

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by bigcello

As far as restaurants, though, I think the pay is a little lower... I haven't played many of those gigs, but I think its around $75/hr each for a duo/trio...no guarantees on that though...sorry

$75 an hour? That would be pretty good for a resturant/bar gig. Is that what you meant?

-tk

[hdiddy]

Troy, I think it's about $50/man for a restaurant gig around here. Weddings/private stuff obviously will pay more. I think something like $150-200. Maybe someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

[pskelly]

Here are some bluegrass and "acoustic music" things in and around Washington DC. These are sideman pay; the leader gets more.

- regular weekly 4 hr bluegrass club date in DC, ~$120/person
- regular weekly restaurant brunch, $75/person for three hours
- recent weddings and private parties, per person: $300, $200, $165

[TroyK]

Man, I need to buy and old Kay and some weedwhackers.

The Butch Warren article that was in the Washington Post earlier this year had him getting $65/gig when he gigged.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by TroyK

So, I hope to get a lot more responses, but is it an early trend that smaller markets are paying more than larger markets?

That's weird. I wouldn't have guessed that.

Now listen, you big city motherf-ckers better stay where you are. Don't be moving to this dunghole taking what's left of my penny ante gigs.

Remember there just aren't good bagels anywhere near here.