Tired of Berklee, looking at NEC

[anonymous8547j7d7b]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

From what I've heard, the Berklee auditions are basically a formality.

That said, if you've got such a meteoric rise to stardom right around the corner, just drop out an audition for American Idol. At least there everyone will recognize your prodigious talent.

Tee-hee

[anonymous8547j7d7b]

Originally Posted by Snarf

Is someone feeling insecure?

I've changed my mind - Berklee don't need wider door-frames - they need archways

[jazzbass72]

Originally Posted by Snarf

Just the fact that rock and rnb music is part of the curriculum and taken seriously here gives me a bad feeling in my stomach.

Ian,
that is a pretty strong statement, and not the only one you volunteered on this thread. It's always sad to see people trash Berklee all the time, for one reason or another. I for one can guarantee that Berklee really changed my life. It gave me a musical vision, the professional connections I needed (with people from all over the world), and made me a better player in several styles. And much more I won't bore you with right now.

I am not the one to tell you which school would be best for you (NEC or Berklee). But I can surely tell you that a little more humbleness is what you will be needing in the real world, when school is a thing of the past, daddy's funding is no longer available, and your fellow musicians will be hiring you on the basis of your playing abilities (25%) and your humbleness and positive attitude about things (75%). Best of luck!

-MP

[Snarf]

Hey Marco, I've heard some of your recordings. Awesome stuff man. I've studied your videos for lots of thumb position stuff.

I'm not really an egomaniac. It's just that for the purpose of this thread, I needed to establish that I'm not a ****** player. I know I'm not amazing and that I have plenty of learning ahead of me, but I HAVE done some things in 13 months that many haven't been able to do. Just a simple fact, something that's completely impossible to prove since I have no recordings, so all you have is my word. I was hoping that my word would have been met with less unfounded hostility. I compare myself constantly to other players here, because that's one way to improve, to take what knowledge you can from peers. From what I've seen and heard, I can compete with the high profile students here on a purely improvisational level, even surpass some of them especially on the matter of soloing. Of course sight reading and strict, studied technique is another matter. And I know there's low profile cats that I've heard of that can smoke me completely. I know text doesn't have any inflection, so everyone assumes the worst about everyone. But the douchebaggery is just lame, folks. It says more about you than it does about me.

[Jeff Guevin]

Snarf, you probably shouldn't be surprised that your initial statements about your abilities were interpreted by some as arrogance. Those people might be wrong about you, but realize many of the people here have seen a lot of young players overestimate their abilities.

And remember that anyone who's posting in this thread is essentially giving you advice, whether or not you like the form it's taken--it's still all for your benefit.

That said, there's a lot of really good advice in this thread, and I hope you don't let the (typical) tension in the discussion dissuade you from taking it to heart. I don't have the experience of many others here, but if I may try to distill what's been said, and a little of my own thoughts:

1) You're at a very good music school, that offers a lot of opportunities for musical growth and success.
2) You are sharing that school with some who are untalented and some who are jerks. That's likely to be true (especially the latter) wherever you go.
3) #2 notwithstanding, most here seem to think there's no reason you shouldn't be able to excel at Berklee, if you bring dedication, humility, and energy to your studies. Berklee is really unlikely to be a barrier to your success, but your attitudes about it might be.
4) NEC will also provide a lot of opportunities for you, and will be different in some ways you might really like, but might be the same in ways you don't expect.
5) However, the consensus seems to be that if you don't currently have significant experience with arco playing, gambling on making a switch to a more classically-oriented program is almost certainly a mistake. If you want to learn arco, then just learn it! You have all the resources you need right now. And if you do advance so quickly with arco playing that you outgrow the place, then you'll be in a better position to make an advantageous move.
6) Definitely don't drop out of school. Lots of us question the direction we're going while we're in school, but trust us, losing the opportunity to play and learn this much would almost certainly be a big mistake. The "real world" is a lot more demanding of your time than you probably realize, and if you don't make the most of what you have, you'll most likely soon be joining the ranks of the day-jobbers--which it sounds like you really don't want to do.

Well, anyway, I hope you find something of value in all this discussion. Good luck!

Jeff

[neal davis]

Snarf I wish more schools were as well rounded as berkley, I am lucky to mainly play jazz for a living, I've travelled the world playing it and I can support my family because of it. But saying that rock and r and b aren't serious types of music is bs. I've been doing more studio work in the past 10 years or so and just because I can make a living at jazz doesn't mean I was a great rock or r and b player, I had to work my butt off to learn the styles and what they are about. I know plenty of great jazz bassist that can't hack it in the studio scene. Try playing tunes like Living for the city by stevie wonder and nailing the great feel just laying down quarter notes, or playing music that is 4/4 time but has one bar of 3/8 in the middle so it fits in to the video for the commercial you are playing and trying to make it sound like it is still 4/4, these are aspects of music that just knowing jazz won't get you. You need to be well rounded to "make it" as a musician and casting away other types of music like they are crap isn't going to get you anywhere. good luck with the audition but keep your head open the days of just making a living being a one style bassist are slowly fading away.

[anonymous8547j7d7b]

Originally Posted by jazzbass72

Ian,
that is a pretty strong statement, and not the only one you volunteered on this thread. It's always sad to see people trash Berklee all the time, for one reason or another. I for one can guarantee that Berklee really changed my life. It gave me a musical vision, the professional connections I needed (with people from all over the world), and made me a better player in several styles. And much more I won't bore you with right now.

I am not the one to tell you which school would be best for you (NEC or Berklee). But I can surely tell you that a little more humbleness is what you will be needing in the real world, when school is a thing of the past, daddy's funding is no longer available, and your fellow musicians will be hiring you on the basis of your playing abilities (25%) and your humbleness and positive attitude about things (75%). Best of luck!

-MP

+ lots

The 75/25 rule is so true. i learned that lesson late and am often stuck in the "25". Usually that's how I prefer it, being hired for what i do rather than because i'm in with the "right people" (less musically-irrelevant ego-associated bull to deal with that way) - BUT - all the plaudits in the world from all the right places don't help when i/my family are skint and there's some inept bassist with an aptitude for being everyone's pal doing the "75".
It's all good advice on offer in this thread - take it.

[Freddels]

If you've got 2 yrs done now I say stick it out and finish your degree. Don't cut and run now. You'll more than likely lose 2 yrs of credits as many schools do not count music credits from other schools.

If you're doing well at Berklee then stay. Then look at one of the other schools for your graduate degree if you really want to do that. Having your degree will open up opportunities in the future. It may not get you the playing gig now (b/c that's based on your playing ability). But in 10 yrs, after you've been gigging a long time, you may want to go back to school and get that graduate degree and then a teaching position.

[Michael Case]

Look at it this way, if being at Berklee has gotten you as far as you say, then something must be working. Plus you really shouldn't take time off from school, even if it is to practice more. As you get older you'll find it harder and harder to go back to school, I know I'm 35 and about to finish my BFA, it took a lot of effort to arrange my life so I can go back to school. If you feel like you need to try auditioning for NEC, IMHO, go for it. What's the worst that can happen? Just don't drop out of the school you're in now. And as was stated before it will be like starting over because a majority of your credits will not be accepted. You seem like you've got a pretty good head on your shoulders, you're also young and a little cocky (no offense). That's cool and all, but don't let it cloud the advise you've been given here (that you asked for).

[Damon Rondeau]

A little cocky??

I don't think I've ever met a seasoned veteran who carried a student's cockiness decades into a working career. It's true you do meet all kinds including ultra-confident types, even arrogant types. The arrogant vets, though, tend not to say much and let the playing do the talking. Cocky is a young player's attitude and it doesn't last. There are reasons for that.

Having said that, perhaps now I'm too much of a douchebag to offer the comment, but here it is anyway. From the standpoint of midlife your time for being in school and slam-dunking a degree in anything is short, very short. You have two blinks of an eye left to finish what you started at Berklee and then just get on with the business of being a musician. The school part is a blip; the business part lasts decades. Oh, and by the way, the business part critically involves working with people, not too many of whom I hope, for your sake, are douchebags.

[joel kelsey]

This is a great thread. I have been playing "professionally" (over 200 gigs a year) for about 3 years now and I have found that a good attitude goes a long way. In fact, I need every edge I can get to make up for my lack of talent. One thing to remember while you are in college is how much it costs. If your parents are paying for it, it is a huge blessing. My parents helped out as much as they could but I will still be paying for my music degree until I am 45 (I am 26 now). It is VERY HARD to make a living playing and having a student loan bill is a drag. I know money is not the end all be all, but if one can afford Berkley, that person has it pretty good. If you are getting scholarships and you quit, you can very easily lose those scholarships. Living in Boston and going to music school does not sound that bad. If I were you I would thank my lucky stars and be humbled because you seem to have it pretty good. One last thing. If it wasn't for RnB, pop, and rock I don't think anyone would be able to study the bass guitar on a college level. I went to a pretty "famous" music school and they don't even consider the bass guitar an instrument. Anyways, good luck!

[Pcocobass]

Hey man I agree with all who say stick it out. I think most of us began to hate our colleges (at least a little) after the two year mark; it's just part of becoming familiar with a place. But if you transfer, you'll probably lose an entire year because one school's requirements are not the same as another's.

As far as the cocky/arrogant thing, you do come off that way whether you are or not. And, on that note, here's my two cents, take it or leave it.......

Originally Posted by Snarf

I compare myself constantly to other players here, because that's one way to improve, to take what knowledge you can from peers.

This might be why you feel so "accomplished." You shoud instead constantly compare yourself to Ray Brown, Oscar Pettiford, Paul Chambers, Peter Washington, Larry Grenadier, Christian McBride, you get the point. That's the bar to strive for, not being the best in your school. Once you get out of school, you'll have to compete at a much higher level. Especially if you come to New York. There's hundreds of bass players you never heard of who play their asses off.

Originally Posted by Snarf

From what I've seen and heard, I can compete with the high profile students here on a purely improvisational level, even surpass some of them especially on the matter of soloing.

Most band leaders don't give a rat's ass if a bassist can solo. All people care about is if you can swing or not, so don't think that's really gonna get you gigs.....

Don't get me wrong, it's good that you're confident in your abilities. If a musician doesn't think he has something to offer an audience, then there really is no reason to perform. But you really shouldn't be surprised that some folks here think your arrogant by what you've been posting.

[Alex Spradling]

Originally Posted by Snarf

I compare myself constantly to other players here, because that's one way to improve, to take what knowledge you can from peers. From what I've seen and heard, I can compete with the high profile students here on a purely improvisational level, even surpass some of them especially on the matter of soloing.

Not to fan flames or whatever, but do you have soundclips? If you're happening then I'll probably have to steal some licks from you. Also, I'm sure if you posted clips of you playing acoustic a lot of people here would be able to present you with realistic expectations and a timeframe (as far as music schools and DB) based on your playing ability.

Alex

I graduated from Berklee a while back. For me it was a wonderful and rewarding experience. There are some fantastic and truly caring teachers over there. It is what you make out of it. Good luck...

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by Alex Spradling

Not to fan flames or whatever, but do you have soundclips? If you're happening then I'll probably have to steal some licks from you. Also, I'm sure if you posted clips of you playing acoustic a lot of people here would be able to present you with realistic expectations and a timeframe (as far as music schools and DB) based on your playing ability.

Alex

I have one upright track on my Myspace, it's at www.myspace.com/ianunderwood. I did have a couple other tracks that I was pretty happy with, but the guitar player thought he played like crap on them (even though he KILLED it), so he asked me not to put them up. If you want to hear a nice up-tempo Ladybird with a sick guitar player, PM me and I can email an MP3.

[inasilentway]

Hey Ian,
I saw you at the Flo caf show a few weeks ago. You definitely have chops, though I just heard you on electric. Still, I don't know if NEC will really be any better than Berklee, because this school is absolutely what you make of it.

Here's a question: I too am finishing my second year at Berklee, and faced doubts of my own, which from talking to people seems to be a fairly common thing amongst Berklee sophomores. Hell, don't we have a 60% dropout rate or something? Anyway, my doubts came about from being utterly miserable as a guitar principal and realizing that I had been ignoring my true bass calling all along. I'm about to switch my principal to bass, and I was wondering which teacher you had. I want someone who can teach me on EB but also help me get started on the DB path (I'm saving for my first one, I was looking at yours but it'll probably be sold by the time I get the money together).

[jazzbass72]

Originally Posted by inasilentway

I don't know if NEC will really be any better than Berklee, because this school is absolutely what you make of it.

+1

Originally Posted by inasilentway

I want someone who can teach me on EB but also help me get started on the DB path

Bruce Gertz might be your best bet.

-Marco ('02 Berklee grad)