On Trolls, Anonymity, and the "Tone" of discussion on the Double Bass Forums

[Steve Clark]

Originally Posted by Vandelay

It's absolutely true that everything that I've posted on TB or other forums, I'd be willing to say to you in a bar, and I stand by it.

I'm late to this thread. I'm actually sitting wondering if I would be regarded as a DB troll or not but I do enjoy the insights from many of the players on the DB side.

Vandelay point is a simple summary of how to approach a forum or life in general for that matter. Sure some of us will have a certain style both in person and on a forum that may rub folks the wrong way but at least they would be telling you straight.

It's the same approach I take when I attend a conference for my main day gig. Someone may approach me in the bar and complain about an issue but my advice to them is that if they are not prepared to speak up in the conference room then why bring it to me in the bar?

I moderated a small forum for a while and it was not the most enjoyable experience sometime so I appreciate what the moderators.

[mcnaire2004]

Well, if I see some ones a ---hole I'll gladly call them a ---hole. Yea, I am hiding behind my mcnaire2004 name. I don't want a person who lives resanably close to me coming to my home because I called him a *******. That is the beautifull thing about forums. People can come and say whatever they want and how they want to contribute to a community of forumers. You set up forum rules and ban people who break them. (Though I have been banned for things that didn't go against the forum rules several times)

[Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Wel my opinion is that those topics have no place here either and I always report anything I see like that - after all, the forum rules say that everything should be appropriate for children, who may well be reading this!

I think that this is part of the problem I see - that anonymity allows people to say rude or inappropriate things - safe in the knoweldge there will be no comeback!

I agree that "rude" is always "rude", but "inappropriate" is a relative term that varies depending on the situation. For example, a photo of a girl in a bikini may be fine for a TB avatar, but the same photo would be inappropriate for that person's office wall. Similarly, a polite but lively debate about civil liberties is apparently acceptable in the TB Off-Topic forum but would be inappropriate in the office.

[Damon Rondeau]

Let our world be large and contain multitudes. Let us cast aside our trolls based on their trollishness and not on the name they take for their own.

Yea, let there be peace and good grooves in the valley...

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by mcnaire2004

Well, if I see some ones a ---hole I'll gladly call them a ---hole. Yea, I am hiding behind my mcnaire2004 name.

I have been banned for things that didn't go against the forum rules several times)

I think you just made a much better case of proving my point than I could ever do!!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Vandelay

Similarly, a polite but lively debate about civil liberties is apparently acceptable in the TB Off-Topic forum but would be inappropriate in the office.

I don't see why this kind of thing might not come up in a coffee break or something - I often have this kind of discussion with work colleagues, if there is a topical event that sparks this off.

So I think it would have been pretty strange to go into an office after 9/11 or the London Bombings and not hear people talking about it!

[hdiddy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I think you just made a much better case of proving my point than I could ever do!!

Uh, I don't get your point Bruce.

Look I already laid out why I don't do it. I don't get where you come off saying that it's tantamount to "lying". I do it for my own protection.

Again, jobs and employers is only one aspect of why. Already yesterday I mentioned something about shooting guns. Chances are if I go into an interview after having a bad day and very stressed, I leave the possibility to an interviewer that I might go postal on them. I doesn't take much for recruiters to make mountains out of molehills. It doesn't take much trivia to be overlooked for a job.

If they really want to know who is behind this id, they can go ahead and look me up. They don't even need to trace my ip, they can just call Paul and ask him. But I'll take my chances that Paul will as for proper authority and not let just any schmo get it. As for tracing ips, if they wanna do it, go ahead, they still have to go through the trouble. If they want it that bad, they can have it but I'm not going to make it easy on them.

Aliases keeps everybody honest. If a new user shows up with the name 'user1', you don't know if it's Ron Carter or Joe Blow and you ought to treat them with respect. If new users are forced to show their real name, they can automatically be written off as not important because their name isn't recognized? I'm willing to bet that if aliases didn't exist, you would've hardly had the number of pro players contributing to this site as you do now.

Finally, sure you choose to reveal yourself freely but others are more protective of themselves, as thinly disquised as it may be. OTOH, people like us need to feel that it's safe or worthwhile to reveal ourselves. Think about rape or abuse victims, why would they want to reveal info so a perp can find them again? And on that train of thought, have you ever thought that we don't trust you? Why should I trust you with my personal id? I don't, so quit asking.

Aliases are a way of life on the internet. Deal with it. If my anonymous name exists and gives you discomfort, sorry, but I don't really give a damn about how you feel about it.

I'm out.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

[bassbuz]

I have to point out that for me anonimity protects, especially, the young ones who say really idiotic things that we old guys know they'll grow out of in a couple of years.
I do some hiring and I sit on audition panels and when the curtain comes down, I'd rather not have that knowledge in my head about one of you. I know you'll figure it out (most of you anyways) but some stuff you write is clearly repeated out of the mouth of your teachers (some competent, some not) or something you heard in the hall at school. Then some argument ensues on this forum, there's posturing, trash-talk and all for an opinion that's often uneducated.
If you think the reply you'd get from a pro is "go back into your room and practice", then it's probably not too important to say. Unless you just enjoy pushing buttons.

I was once a young pup too.
buz

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Uh, I don't get your point Bruce.

Look I already laid out why I don't do it. I don't get where you come off saying that it's tantamount to "lying". I do it for my own protection.

Again, jobs and employers is only one aspect of why. Already yesterday I mentioned something about shooting guns. Chances are if I go into an interview after having a bad day and very stressed, I leave the possibility to an interviewer that I might go postal on them. I doesn't take much for recruiters to make mountains out of molehills. It doesn't take much trivia to be overlooked for a job.

If they really want to know who is behind this id, they can go ahead and look me up. They don't even need to trace my ip, they can just call Paul and ask him. But I'll take my chances that Paul will as for proper authority and not let just any schmo get it. As for tracing ips, if they wanna do it, go ahead, they still have to go through the trouble. If they want it that bad, they can have it but I'm not going to make it easy on them.

Aliases keeps everybody honest. If a new user shows up with the name 'user1', you don't know if it's Ron Carter or Joe Blow and you ought to treat them with respect. If new users are forced to show their real name, they can automatically be written off as not important because their name isn't recognized? I'm willing to bet that if aliases didn't exist, you would've hardly had the number of pro players contributing to this site as you do now.

Finally, sure you choose to reveal yourself freely but others are more protective of themselves, as thinly disquised as it may be. OTOH, people like us need to feel that it's safe or worthwhile to reveal ourselves. Think about rape or abuse victims, why would they want to reveal info so a perp can find them again? And on that train of thought, have you ever thought that we don't trust you? Why should I trust you with my personal id? I don't, so quit asking.

Aliases are a way of life on the internet. Deal with it. If my anonymous name exists and gives you discomfort, sorry, but I don't really give a damn about how you feel about it.

I'm out.

[damonsmith]

I like using my name, I am not afraid of my opinions. Not only that it is not like even the most famous double bass players can't use a little more promotion case in point: hdiddy is a Bay Area guy, I may have gone to some of his gigs some time if I saw his name listed in the Guardian or whatever. Being the Bay Area one more person at a gig can make a difference.
Basically, these discussions are just exchanges of opinion, how can anyone take your opinions seriously if you won't even put your name to it?

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I like using my name, I am not afraid of my opinions. Not only that it is not like even the most famous double bass players can't use a little more promotion case in point: hdiddy is a Bay Area guy, I may have gone to some of his gigs some time if I saw his name listed in the Guardian or whatever. Being the Bay Area one more person at a gig can make a difference.
Basically, these discussions are just exchanges of opinion, how can anyone take your opinions seriously if you won't even put your name to it?

Isn't it simply this: Different strokes for different folks? For some, German bows, for some, French. For some, spiros, for others, gut. For some, bluegrass, for others, jazz; others still, classical.

Why do some folks feel the need to get others to "see it my way?"

It's just that: Your way. If it works for you, great. If I have any questions, I'll ask. No need for another "Crusades," right?

Live and let live, right?

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

Isn't it simply this: Different strokes for different folks? For some, German bows, for some, French. For some, spiros, for others, gut. For some, bluegrass, for others, jazz; others still, classical.

Why do some folks feel the need to get others to "see it my way?"

It's just that: Your way. If it works for you, great. If I have any questions, I'll ask. No need for another "Crusades," right?

Live and let live, right?

-I won't take your opinons seriously becuase you won't put your name to them, even though we all know you are actually Verbal.

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Well this is the difference between us - I would actively volunteer information about myself - I would want an employer (or friend) to know all about me and if they didn't want me, I'd rather know that, than somehow "live a lie" - where they think I'm something else - some "construct" that I have made to keep them happy!

To me it's a simple choice - live a lie, where you are fooling others about who you really are - or accept what you are!

so you're saying that we all need to think this way because you do? dont people using CB radios use fake names and discourage real names as a matter of course? are those public airwaves not unlike this public forum?

[Francois Blais]

[Chris Fitzgerald]

and

[oliebrice]

although I choose to post under my own name (I didn't realise you could leave gaps in your name when I signed up!) I have to admit I've come across things I wrote a while ago that now make me cringe....

maybe I should insult someone then I could go back and delete them all!

[ToR-Tu-Ra]

I don't get why is there such a fuss about screen names. My name, if you really need to know it to take me seriously, is Jorge. But it could be Fernando, Francisco, Juan, Roberto, etc. Whichever my name is, my words are still my words, right? Usually, I value people for what they have to say rather than for their names. So, If a "Troll" comes here with his/her real name typing loads of bull crap, just because he/she uses his/her real name, we should take him/her serious?

I guess it all boils down to this: Stupid words are stupid no matter who says/types them. And the other way 'round.

[Sabir]

Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

[bankerwithabass]

Chris, More power to you. I have lurked for a while now and on occasion weigh in. I try to be carefull what I say and if I can't contribute something somewhat original, I don't I think you should continue doing what your doing. I thank you and appreciate the effort! I am surprised when someone turns combative and what I like to call juvinile. As a manager of people for many years ( I don't do it anymore) I am never surprised when someone goes off the deep end and don't recognize just how juvinile they have become. Almost always someone like that doesn't see that in themselves, otherwise I don't think they would do it. These kind of formums are precious things and need to be protected. So you just keep on! Thanks and hope to see you around for some time! -Darrell Oliphant

[bankerwithabass]

Ha, didn't see the date. Well I will leave my post anyway.