Ulnar nerve compression - any advice/solutions?

[Tampabass]

I'm starting a new thread on this, as the last one I saw (bassphase comment below) was from several years ago.

Ulnar nerve compression, likely stemming from some kind squeezing related to my elbow, is what an orthopedic specialist has diagnosed regarding my condition (tingling/numb pinkie and ring finger on left hand). My primary doc initially thought it was carpal tunnel.

Bassphase, I'd be interested to know what happened with your situation. I've been on anti-inflammatory medicine for nearly two weeks, but, so far, it isn't working. I'm having nerve conduction tests this Friday.

Anyone else with experience/advice regarding this condition?

Originally Posted by bassphase

You have the symptoms of ulnar nerve compression. I've been sufferring from it too although mine is about 75% better (in 4 months). The ulnar nerve is both a sensory and motor nerve so I've experienced weakness as well as the numb pinkie and ring finger. The compression can be anywhere from the neck, elbow or wrist. I've had nerve conduction tests which seems to indicate wrist and elbow but they are inconclusive about neck problems. My neck x rays show degenerative disks and bone spurs growing into the nerve area. I have an MRI scheduled for next week. Chiropractic was unsuccessful for me. Mine was brought on by overzealous tree pruning. All my doctors seems to believe it will continue to get better on its own but want to see what's going on in a little more clearly with the MRI.

good luck

bob

[Ed Fuqua]

I absolutely think that this is a subject for public discussion, but (if you haven't already) you may want to shoot bassphase a PM or e-mail just to give him a head's up that you've started this thread.

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I absolutely think that this is a subject for public discussion, but (if you haven't already) you may want to shoot bassphase a PM or e-mail just to give him a head's up that you've started this thread.

I'll do so - by the way, meant "advice" not "advise"...

[Eric Hochberg]

Don't know if this will help your condition, but I've found "The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook" by Clair Davies very useful as a resource.

[bassphase]

My problems healed themselves after about 6 months. I was scared, especially after the incident which triggered the injury that I might not be able to play again or only with limited facility.

I have to say that I received excellent medical care from Kaiser Permanente. Sometimes Kaiser and other HMO's get bad press and perhaps rightly so. In my case , however, they spared no expense getting me an MRI, appointments with neurology, physical therapy and a surgeon who was a candidate for sainthood with her empathy for struggling musicians.

bob

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by bassphase

My problems healed themselves after about 6 months. I was scared, especially after the incident which triggered the injury that I might not be able to play again or only with limited facility.

I have to say that I received excellent medical care from Kaiser Permanente. Sometimes Kaiser and other HMO's get bad press and perhaps rightly so. In my case , however, they spared no expense getting me an MRI, appointments with neurology, physical therapy and a surgeon who was a candidate for sainthood with her empathy for struggling musicians.

bob

Thanks for the update, and great to hear that your issues are resolved.

Just to clarify: When you say that your problems healed themselves, do you mean that you didn't undergo surgery or physical therapy?

(I was a bit confused because of what you said regarding meeting with surgeons and physical therapists).

[bassphase]

No surgery was required. I honestly can't remember if I had physical therapy for that issue (getting old here). I remember having it for some repetitive stress injuries in my elbow that were unrelated.


bob

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by bassphase

No surgery was required. I honestly can't remember if I had physical therapy for that issue (getting old here). I remember having it for some repetitive stress injuries in my elbow that were unrelated.


bob

Thanks, Bassphase.
For you, or anyone else who has experienced this or related issues: One bassist who dealt with this problem recommended that I take a month or so off from playing, as this was an important step in his road to healing. Does that make sense?

In other words, if I were to keep playing "through" the problem (no pain now, just the tingling and numbness), would it aggravate the situation?

And, in case you didn't see my earlier post, I'm not just taking online advice. I'm seeing my orthopedic doc again this Friday for some testing.

I'm just wanting to collect some information regarding others' experiences so that I can think about other options if/when my doc recommends physical therapy or surgery or other routes. Several bassists, locally and elsewhere, have advised me to avoid surgery if at all possible.

In addition to the problem itself, I'll have to admit that I'm dealing with some depression related to how my playing ability is going to be affected by all of this.

Thanks for any feedback.

[bassphase]

In my case, the injury wasn't caused from playing but an afternoon of tree pruning. I was told to play it by ear as far as holding off playing. She (the surgeon) felt it probably wouldn't make it worse based on what the MRI results suggested but I was to stop if it did. I did have a course of anti inflamatories, vit B6 suggestions from the neurologist. I think I iced my elbow too and maybe had ultrasound treatments--not sure on that one --I maybe confusing it with another injury. It seems I may have had a prescription for another drug related to nerve function--not sure.

I know exactly how you're feeling. The thought of not playing put me into a state of depression too. My surgeon kept telling me statistically I would heal and have no impairments. It's hard to be patient--I hope you get empathetic practitioners as I was lucky to have. Do you know how you injured yourself? If it was caused by playing, maybe give Mr Higdon a call and look into ways to modify your playing so injuries are less likely

Good luck--I hope it works out for you--it most likely will.


bob

[Tampabass]

No, there was no obvious activity (that I know of) that caused the issue.
I do spend much time at the computer keyboard for my day job - don't know if that has anything to do with it or not.

[Steve Clark]

I'm not sure I can add to the discussion much. I have been working with physio on what she calls a stuck shoulder. Not a frozen shoulder thankfully. What led me to her was that on a gig with a fast swing at the end of the night I felt like brain was going to shut my arm off. Some said I looked quite ill. Essentially after years of playing these less than ergonomic instruments I have lost range of motion in some directions. My symptoms leading up to that gig were things like reaching into the back seat of the car could be seeing stars painful. I remember on new years leaning into the car on the drivers side on my bad shoulder and finding I was stuck because I could not use my bad arm to push me back out of the car.

I understand her methods to be somewhat different from a regular physio session but she has got me from not being able to put my right arm behind my back to much, much more mobility. When she works on me she can be working on the shoulder but I can feel it in the elbow or even the hand so everything is connected. Usually having a former rowing Olympian climbing all over you would be a good thing but sometimes it has been very painful but she's getting it more mobile every visit. My main point being if you are a runner just because your big toe hurts it may have nothing to do with your big toe.

This week a new wrinkle has been added in that we've established that I have a mild tendonitis in the the tendon leading to the index finger. The thumb and fore finger have separate tendons. The other three fingers are in a group of tendons as I understand it. With that in mind I decided to look into meeting an acupuncturist. Turns out he is also a massage therapist and he massaged me deeper than I have ever been massaged in my life. He found quite a few points from my chest over to my shoulder and down to my wrist and fingers that were very sensitive pressure points. The coolest thing was when he was working on those points he would apply a great deal of pressure to the sore bit and then it would ease. I had to ask him the first time if he had let go but he hadn't. Interesting stuff.

My feeling is that perhaps I had developed the tendonitis recently by doing a few amp-less gigs and have pulled too hard on the bass or that my position was bad. That led me to Jeff Stokes at UWO who, today , spent 30 minutes with me and he, for the most part, was very positive about my position and technique but agrees that I may well be pulling too hard and also letting my shoulders tense up as well as lifting my right elbow up. So I need to work on stretching and keep relaxed as I play. I also just moved to Spiro Mediums from the Weichs so that may also be an issue. He also suggested that while I do like the sound of my bass that there still may be something I'm looking for in the sound that I'm not hearing and there fore digging in too much to find it.

As I said I'm not sure how much I am adding here accept to say that through different resources, and no medication, I am gradually getting to the root of the problem and making progress on healing. Which is a huge relief after returning to playing in 2003 and at 43 I want to play for many more years. It feeds my soul. And it might not even be the bass. It might be the mouse or the Blackberry. But perhaps my story so far will be helpful.

[Steve Clark]

I completely forgot that the night that I felt like the arm was going to give out did involve forearm and elbow pain. I walked out to the bar for a drink and one of the volunteers at the bar is a retired OT who saw me massaging my forearm and elbow. Based on that she suggested I might have issues like the OP posted but after working with my physio it turns out that it is a shoulder issue first and foremost which ended up affecting the elbow as well. It was the retired OT who said I looked really bad. She said I was very pale and sick looking so I was in a bad way at the time. But the good news as per my first reply is you can get help.

[Tampabass]

Thought I'd give an update: My ortho doctor this morning, after doing some tests that revealed overall weakness in my left hand, referred me to a neurologist, to make sure that there isn't any nerve damage. He also prescribed heavy doses of vitamin B.

Bummed that I don't feel closer to a resolution, but I'm pleased that my doc is being proactive in checking out all possibilities.

Thanks for all the feedback and input. I've communicated with a number of different bass players, here and elsewhere (including some high-profile guys), and the overriding messages, so far, are 1)Stop playing now, to make sure I don't do additional damage (I'm laying off for a month); 2)Avoid surgery, if at all possible; 3)Strive for overall healthy diet/exercise habits (yes, d'oh, but I'm guessing that few of us take that as seriously as we should).

I'm also exploring ideas related to relaxation techniques, and healthier ways of positioning the bass in relation to my body.

I basically came to the URB from electric, and I've only had a few formal URB lessons over the years. I'm pretty sure that I've acquired some playing habits that aren't for the best. So I'm going to try to connect with a good teacher.

Appreciate the support here ....

[Steve Clark]

Yes, yes, yes. Have a teacher look at your technique. Music College in Tampa with a double bass teacher in Tampa?

A change in technique may be all you need. Incidentally when I went to see the prof at UWO he was actually surprised to find out it was my right arm that was the problem. I think he was expecting it to be a left hand issue. As I mentioned he thought my technique overall is good. Actually said he would love to see more bass players come to school with technique as clean as mine but he still gave me some food for thought on my stance, height of the bass, and hand and especially arm use.

[Tampabass]

Yes, there are several quite outstanding players/teachers around my area, some affiliated with local colleges and universities. I'm friendly with most of the guys - just need to get something going, which I'll do ...

I did recently take a one-off lesson with a "name" player - he said he was pleased by my tone/time/intonation, but observed that my left-hand fingering technique was unconventional (which I sort of knew). It's "worked" for me for years, but it's probably time to readjust/revise, etc.

[Jake deVilliers]

Tamp, your ulnar nerve is being compressed by your muscles; go and see a good massage therapist.

Regular visits to my RMT is the reason I am still capable of playing and working with my hands.

[Steve Clark]

Update on my situation. I have moved to an RMT. I will still see the physio from time to time as well.

RMT is very good at finding tight spots. The strangest thing is he will apply pressure to the knots he finds which can be very painful. After a few moments that pain goes away and you'd swear that he had let go but he hadn't.

We are finding out that one of my main issues is part of the rotator cuff and shoulder blade area. Arms and wrist feel great these days.

I am much more aware of my posture these days as well and have discovered that I tense and lift my shoulder everywhere be it playing bass, computer or walking around. I need to relax this area of my body and be aware of when the tension is starting again.

Good news is progress is being made.

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by Steve Clark

Update on my situation. I have moved to an RMT. I will still see the physio from time to time as well.

RMT is very good at finding tight spots. The strangest thing is he will apply pressure to the knots he finds which can be very painful. After a few moments that pain goes away and you'd swear that he had let go but he hadn't.

We are finding out that one of my main issues is part of the rotator cuff and shoulder blade area. Arms and wrist feel great these days.

I am much more aware of my posture these days as well and have discovered that I tense and lift my shoulder everywhere be it playing bass, computer or walking around. I need to relax this area of my body and be aware of when the tension is starting again.

Good news is progress is being made.

Thanks for the update. I'm still dealing with the same issues, but I've now gone through "electrical testing" with a neurologist and I'll be going back to see the orthopedic doc soon. Before visiting the neuro, I took anti-inflammatory meds and then heavy B6 doses, prescribed by the ortho doc. Neither worked.

If the ortho can't help me lick it, guess I'll move on to a massage therapist, as you have done, or maybe try a chiropractor, or something.

I've stopped playing (last gig, May 31), and, I guess, I won't start again until this is resolved.

For those who have recommended that I stop playing, so as not to cause any kind of damage - would you stop playing upright AND electric?

[MLysh]

For what it's worth, don't let massage therapy be a last resort. I was headed toward lower back surgery in 2000, when I took the advice of a friend and went to a massage therapist. Long story, short: she fixed my back. Surgery was prevented. Since that time I've been a true-believer. I go once every three weeks or so for tune-ups and recently had her work in tandem with my chriropractor to resolve some carpal-tunnel-like problems in my left hand. The problem was actually in my neck and shoulder. Good luck.

[Tampabass]

Originally Posted by MLysh

For what it's worth, don't let massage therapy be a last resort. I was headed toward lower back surgery in 2000, when I took the advice of a friend and went to a massage therapist. Long story, short: she fixed my back. Surgery was prevented. Since that time I've been a true-believer. I go once every three weeks or so for tune-ups and recently had her work in tandem with my chriropractor to resolve some carpal-tunnel-like problems in my left hand. The problem was actually in my neck and shoulder. Good luck.

Thanks. Maybe I'll jump on that sooner, rather than later.

Anyone have any personal recommendations for good massage therapists in the Tampa area?