Where my money at?

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

I think it's safe to say that music is moving from general entertainment into the world of performance art, esp Jazz. Performance art, or even "good" art, in general usually pays squat, but most of us aren't doing it for the money.

I'm willing to do it for money. I'd give up my day job in a heartbeat if I could make a living playing jazz.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by TroyK

Lucky for me and my bandmates, I'm easy on the eyes!

You sure ain't easy on my nerves, Troika.

[Mark Perna]

Jazz hasn't been mainstream music for 50 years BUT, there is a mystique to jazz. Club or restaurant owners, many times, will have live jazz to create an ambiance. We are, in essence, a part of the decor.

I discovered this a few years ago when I had a 4 night per week jazz gig. We could play anything we wanted as long as we 1) weren't too loud and 2) projected a certain aura of sophistication. As such we had nights where we played totally free. We had Blue Note Wayne Shorter nights where we only played Wayne Shorter Blue Note tunes. Coltrane nights etc. We had many nights where we worked out originals. Most of the stuff on my Myspace page got it's first run through on that gig. Sometimes we got requests and we honored them whenever we could. We were blissfully not expected to bring people into the club either. Plenty of people came to listen us anyway. It really was a great gig. The restaurant was happy and we got paid to play 16 hours per week.

As far as getting paid, I almost never work for free. If the bread for a gig is particularly bad, I'll take a lower cut to help out the guys who depend on the gig money to eat, though I NEVER tell them that I'm doing it. I always get paid something on these gigs though. Getting paid is part of being a professional. I sometimes volunteer to play for benefits which would be one of the rare non-paying gigs I take. I'll also take the occasional free gig to help out a friend. Those are extremely rare and usually there is some PR benefit to it or I'll get a chance to sell CDs or something.

For club dates in Pittsburgh, we can usually command $250 for a trio which is $80-85 a piece. Some gigs pay up to $400 for a quartet but those are fairly rare. I work 8-10 times per month on average which is all I can really handle with a day gig and a family. There are guys around here doing 15-25 dates per month. I would have to seriously change my lifestyle and really depend on my wife's income if I tried living on what I make as a musician. As is, my music income covers my basic music expenses and some equipment purchases but not including major capital purchases like basses.

mark

[Michael Glynn]

Originally Posted by calivox

Jazz hasn't been mainstream music for 50 years BUT, there is a mystique to jazz. Club or restaurant owners, many times, will have live jazz to create an ambiance. We are, in essence, a part of the decor.

This idea bums out musicians a lot of times, but it's true. For places like hotels and restaurants, it doesn't even really matter if anyone checks out the band. Just advertising that they have "live jazz" one or two nights a week lends an air of sophistication that can help draw in customers.

Even for a place that really features jazz, rather than having it as background music, half the customers come because it's a place that features live jazz, not necessarily because it is specifically me or someone else playing. I wouldn't want my pay to rely upon exactly how many people came out that night and how much they spent at the bar.

If I get offered a steady gig, say at a restaurant, where the owner wants to see their profits go up by at least the amount we are paid each and every time we play there, you can bet I will pencil in those dates very lightly after the first couple of weeks. Almost every time in this situation, the band fails to bring in enough money in the first few weeks and we get laid off. Equally often, they hire bands on a completely random schedule (on this week, off the next) to save a few bucks, but then nobody knows when there will be music, so nobody shows up to listen.

If anyone asks my opinion (and they rarely do, probably wisely) I compare having jazz in their restaurant to buying new tables. If they spend a bunch of money on nice new tables, do they expect business to immediately jump up to a point where they make their money back in a week? Of course not, they are planning for the future by making their restaurant a more pleasant place. If they similarly make an investment in hiring good musicians on a regular schedule and getting out the word, eventually it starts to pay off even on the days when we aren't playing there because we have helped create a nice atmosphere, and probably introduced new customers to their restaurant.

Long story short, the places that are successful in presenting live jazz (and usually pay the best) are those that have taken the long view and made a commitment to present good music consistently, regardless of exactly how much extra the bar makes when the band is playing.

[ole Jason]

Originally Posted by fingers

I'm with Ed here. Rock clubs are the worst. At least most jazz places give you a #. Many rock clubs do a cut of cover AFTER they pay the sound man out of the door.

I've never understood the animosity towards a sound man getting paid.

I did sound in college and it is a thankless job that can be very stressful. I worked harder than most bands that came into the club. I don't know how many times I overheard bands whining about how little they got paid because the 'soundman had to be paid first'.

Sorry but if you need PA support you wouldn't even have the gig without someone being there to run sound for you. Be appreciative of what they do.

[Marc Piane]

What about my comment makes it seem like I have no love for the sound man? I made no statement of quality, just where their pay comes from.

I think the club should pay them NOT the cover charge. Better?

[ole Jason]

Originally Posted by fingers

What about my comment makes it seem like I have no love for the sound man? I made no statement of quality, just where their pay comes from.

I think the club should pay them NOT the cover charge. Better?

Yep. I always made a flat rate whether we had 20 people in the club or 200. I think it's unfair to the soundman AND the band to pay club employees out of the door money.

[Marc Piane]

A friend of mine played a gig with his band where the door take was less than the soundman cut. The band had to pay the difference.

[TroyK]

Yeah, that's BS. I especially resent it when a) we didn't really need a sound guy and b) the one that the club forced on us had never dealt with a doublebass or jazz band before. For an outdoor festival, fine, it's a different story. But, with outdoor festivals, usually the event pays both the soundguy and the bands, so it's a different story.

There's a venue here that is medium sized and usually has rock bands. They started having a jazz night and we had issues with being required to keep food on the club's soundguy's table, when we would have preferred to have not had him.

Not to mention the door guy, who we know skims anyway...

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by fingers

A friend of mine played a gig with his band where the door take was less than the soundman cut. The band had to pay the difference.

I hope they sold a few CDs at least. What a drag. They paid for gas, probably tolls and parking and then, they not only didn't get paid for playing 3-4 hours, they had to pay the soundman out of their own pocket.

Personally I think if the club provides a soundman, the club should pay for the soundman. And some clubs make you use their soundman. You don't have a choice. Of course, no one actually cares what I think.

mark

[earthlypunk]

Most of the time I AM the soundman and the bassist when I play somewhere

IMO jazz is actually not that bad in terms of finding paying gigs because many club/restaurant owners feel that it has a certain sophistication about it. I can usually get decent paying gigs fairly often for my jazz combo, but I often can't get any or have to play for real cheap with my indie band. But still, the jazz pay isn't great either.