Why do guys with chops insist on playing so damn fast?

[Uncletoad]

I have to get this off my chest.

I'm playing a gig tonight with this guitar player and a drummer. The guy is a gun slinger. A million chops with a handful of ideas. He calls Girl from Impetigo and kicks it off at 150mph. What is the point of that? It's all about how big his tallywhacker is.

There is sex in all of Jobim's tunes. The kind that is found at slower tempos where they are just hot enough to move but in a way that requires patience and muscle tone. A seduction. A slow tease. That song has a beauty in the gentle sway and delicate movement through the bridge.

He's hacking it up like Freddie Kruger.

I can't play the changes that fast and make them work. It was boring and people were pouring out of the club.

Stella at 500mph. uggh. I'm thinking Johnny Hartman and he's thinking Eddie Van.

He plays as rude as his temperament.

"Do you want the chart?"

"No, I can't read in the dark"


..."Or with the lights on"

Whats up next?

Take 5? 750mph.

Why bother....

I hate that tune at a proper tempo.

I'll bet he's done in 5 minutes and sleeping before she gets her top off...

On break he makes a comment about how he was dusting me and he thought I was a better player and must be having an off night.

Ok that's a stupid thing to say to a fat Italian.

I should have put my foot in his ass but I didn't want to soil my Moreschi loafers. Oddly I just smiled and said "sorry I though everyone knew I sucked."

The changes of childbirth are subtle and profound.

It's really all for the best, I'm sure he's deleted my number. Thank god for small favors.

There are nights like this that I really appreciate playing George Jones tunes to low toothcount girls. They adore you even if you suck, the band is always chill even if you don't get it all right, and nobody is keeping score.

Everyone is smiling and talking about football or cars or their stupid spouse on the break.

Thats better.....

[Chris Fitzgerald]

He sounds like an arse. Good riddance. There's technical chops, and then there's musical chops. Sounds like he might have the first, but doesn't even know the second kind exists. I've been dissed like that at the ends of gigs before, and I simply make it a point not to play with those people again. Sounds like you handled the situation just fine. And yes, fatherhood does change things, dunnit? Some things that used to seem important start to seem like a complete waste of time. Ya done good.

Musically, seduction is the name of the game in my book. Pornstar wannabees can find another bassist in the 'Ville.

[M Ramsey]

My kid, Aaron, falls into this trap at times. He is an excellent rhythm player on guitar, banjo, mandolin, dobro, bass (both slab and upright) whether it be jazz, bluegrass or whatever.

Sometimes, when we were playing together all the time, we could stay up with him on fast stuff. But that comes from being tight with the ensemble sound. He can get into jams with other musicians at the top of their game and lock up the time.

I try to make suggestions to him of making breaks more "musical" leaving gaps or small breaks in the musical interlude to allow the listener to think about what they just heard as he begins the next part of the break. He's starting to get it. Lots of these problems is due to the influence from a very young band with "hot" players.

Give me a three chord bluegrass waltz and singing with passion.

[Marc Piane]

You know the old joke

What's the difference between a rock guitar player and a jazz guitar player?

The rock guitar player plays 3 chords in front of thousands of people. The jazz guitar player plays thousands of chords in front of 3 people.

Man, what a jerk. Maybe you should have soiled your loafers. I hate getting vibed like that especially when I know I'm not the problem. I once had a sax player call Cherokee. Count it off at a ridiculous tempo then proceed to turn the melody around and around. After the song he turned around to me and said "Man, you guys should really work on that tune" my response "Actually I think you should really work on playing whole notes and half notes"

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

Give me a three chord bluegrass waltz and singing with passion.

Allison Krauss. Makes me swoon every time.

I'd do her laundry.

[M Ramsey]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Allison Krauss. Makes me swoon every time.

I'd do her laundry.

Phil,

Get you a dose of Dudley Connell singing "When the Golden Leaves Begin to Fall" from the Longview CD titled "Lessons in Stone." Go here to sample.

Beware, this is not for the faint of heart!

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

The changes of childbirth are subtle and profound.

Actually, I don't know that tune. What are the changes of "Childbirth?"

Play on, Phil . . .

[damonsmith]

There are a lot of definitions of chops, you should have called an ultra-slow ballad, around 40 or 50 bpm, and found out if he could hang. Most people with a lot of facility won't show it off all the time, they just have it so they can relax and "play" on the gig instead of work.
Anyway, extreme caution must be used when dealing with guitar players.

[Marcus Johnson]

Reminds me of that old joke;

Q.) What does (insert guitarist's name) use for birth control?

A.) His personality.

[Damon Rondeau]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Anyway, extreme caution must be used when dealing with guitar players.

Ain't that the truth. Safety gear might be required -- you might want to wear a cup or something.

At least you didn't get any on ya, Phil. You didn't, right?

[PaulMacCnj]

Phil,

I think it's an inferiority complex that makes people play fast and complicated. They feel very insecure about playing slow and simple for fear that they might not impress someone. Heck, go into a store like Guitar Center and listen to all the horrible wanking. It's sounds like crap. Once in awhile I'll find someone laying low and playing something slow and melodic. I always walk over to compliment them and we laugh about the wankers.

BTW, that's a great avatar you have. "Cool" is what comes to mind.

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Anyway, extreme caution must be used when dealing with guitar players.

True that.

I wonder sometimes with guys like that how their time is. It's sometimes hard to tell at 300bpm. Maybe that's why they are comfortable playing there. Who knows? You're certainly better off not playing with him. Hopefully for him, Columbus is full of qualified doublebassist who love taking his gigs. Otherwise he may regret being such an arse.

-tk

[Uncletoad]

This is usually my brother's gig on piano but he's been in a wreck and subbed himself out. When I told him the story this morning he was pissed that he wasn't there to call Giant Steps at 60 and kick this guys ass.

I have no idea about the changes on "Childbirth". I'm faking it as they pass me by.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

Phil,

Get you a dose of Dudley Connell singing "When the Golden Leaves Begin to Fall" from the Longview CD titled "Lessons in Stone." Go here to sample.

Beware, this is not for the faint of heart!

Will do. This is a new one for me.

[Uncletoad]

Oh and for the record. I did suck really wind on that gig. I sounded fantastic but couldn't find my way through the tunes without standing in a waist deep pile of clams.

Sometimes when you sound really good the listener assumes you are right and the other guy isn't cause he sounds like poop, even if he's right.

So, strive to sound good and play with authority and you can suck like I do and still get gigs.

[bassist1962]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

So, strive to sound good and play with authority and you can suck like I do and still get gigs.

+1000!!

[Stinsok]

At least you "get it." What's the point in being a hot guitar player if you can't play the tunes correctly or play in a band setting. Take comfort in knowing he sucks and not you.

[Jazzdogg]

Sounds familiar. I've seen full-blown cases of recto-cranial insertion, especially among guitarists, so severe that both vision and hearing were affected, leading the afflicted musician to believe he was the only one on stage.

[Jake deVilliers]

"full-blown cases of recto-cranial insertion"

Oh gawd that's perfect!

In the bluegrass world its more likely to be the mandolin or banjo player who suffers from this affliction.
Many of them are incapable of playing sweetly on a slower song and don't know what to do with a waltz but will absolutely litter the stage with notes on a fast fiddle tune.

In my region I know who they are and avoid them like the plague.

[Mark Perna]

On the one hand, the ability to play at fast tempos is something of a prerequisite for jazz and there is certainly a long history of turning the music into a quasi-Olympic event. In the Bebop days, you either hung or went home. And I've certainly played my share of gigs where it seemed everyone was getting paid by the note.

That said, there is such a thing as appropriateness. A tune is more than just an excuse to flash chops. Expression, lyrical, melodic playing, dynamics, swing, phrasing, contrast all play a very important part of the musical experience. Playing everything fast is like playing everything loud. After a while, it loses it's impact and just gets annoying. The first tune is amazing. The second tune is great. By the third fast, loud tune, you want to stick your head in an oven. It's like drinking from a firehose. You want a sip but you get your head taken off.

I'm going to take a stab and guess that the guitar player rushed, too. Usually, guys that play fast all of the time rush like fiends. There is nothing worse than some chowderhead shaving a little off of each quarter/eighth/sixteenth note as the tune blunders out of control like demented cartoon music until someone finally reaches the end and wins the race. In addition to rushing, those guys usually can't swing to save their lives. Playing really fast disguises that little shortcoming.

And finally, there's just no excuse for bad or insulting manners on a gig. If the guitar player had insulted me like that on break, I wouldn't have been there for the next set. If he wasn't happy with what you were doing, there are all kinds of ways of broaching it without insulting or belittling you. And if he thought you were a lost cause, just finish the gig and don't say anything. How hard is that?

mark